Boys and their boots (and hats) ...

[veronica_rich]

My penchant for wanting to discuss symbolism does sometimes overextend my grasp; I'll admit that upfront. But there's something I wanted to bring up based on a DMC discussion I saw in a subset of someone else's REALLY GOOD LJ discussion (it's in the one about the dice, for anyone who's heard of/read that one).



I'll try to be brief. There's a discussion in the comments section of the dice post - http://community.livejournal.com/triskaideka____/16644.html?thread=145156#t145156 - wherein we discuss the symbolistic importance of hats in the POTC movies. It's pretty much a given that Jack's hat is his power source. *G*

But metalkatt and I were discussing this earlier, and I told her it occurred to me that hats didn't work for all the characters (I'm just dealing with the major ones here, because at 3 am, any more than that would induce a migraine. Please feel free to add your own 2 cents in the comments, though, about anyone you like). Let's look at Will and James, specifically.

Will really advances as a character in DMC. He learns how to cheat to get what he needs (using the dice game as disguise for his real motive, hardly "honorable" in his old world), how to square more with adversity, how to deal with Jack and accept the consequences for not getting *enough* information from Jack (witness how when Elizabeth finds out Jack lied to her, she gets pissed off, but Will simply calls him on it and lets it drop as if he expects no less). But at the beginning of the movie, when he's actually wearing a hat - the only time he is - he is arrested and shackled and led to Beckett.

This scene annoys me. Will seems so ... impotent here. He doesn't struggle physically as much as he should. Elizabeth's demand for the charges is more forceful and badass, while Will just sort of stands there - I don't mean because he's the man he should be louder or angrier, I mean WILL HAS A TEMPER and we've seen it. Frankly, if this were the first time I were ever seeing Will Turner in action, I would be underwhelmed with both character and actor.

I've always contended that Bloom's not a wooden actor, he just tends to underplay rather than overdramatize, and a lot of viewers don't appreciate or see need for the difference. And it occured to me that may be the case here, too (of course, direction helps, but an actor's gotta be able to pull it off and if my meta is right, he does).

Notice that Will doesn't act like this in the rest of the movie. Once he leaves the jail, he takes charge, tracking Jack down himself, taking risks, going into strange places, getting the crew out of trouble and ultimately, off the Pelegostos island. His attitude isn't the same, either - he's confident once he manages to get Jack on the Pearl and make demands. He's not even as impotent on board the Flying Dutchman as he was in his wedding coat and hat, not even when he's being physically whipped. And, while deferential to Tia Dalma's mystical powers, he's not hesitant in the way that Gibbs and the other pirates are.

In other words, there is Will Turner in this movie, and there is William Turner - and I don't mean son and father. ;-)

Anyway, if a hat isn't Will's power here, what is? metalkatt says it's the boots. She also pointed out James has the boots, too, and they seem to be better for him than his hat, as well. (Come to think of it, EVERYONE in this movie has pirate boots.) Throughout the first movie, James had his hat and wig, and he never seemed really in charge as he should've. When he rescues Will, it's at Elizabeth's wheedling; he doesn't get to defeat the undead pirates until they're mortal, thanks to Jack and Will; he doesn't even get to hang his captive, because of Will's, Elizabeth's, and Swann's interference. In DMC, he's buffeted about when we first see him, staggering here and there or being led about. But once he's free of his wig, he's free to comment on absolutely anything. He fights for himself, he seizes the chance to steal the two Power Objects in the movie (heart and letter of marque), AND he manages to trick his way away from Jones's crew with none the wiser. (metalkatt wants to know why the hell he'd want to go back to his hatted, bewigged life, if he does so much better without them, and I'm inclined to wonder, as well.)

Thoughts?

Comments

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

In DMC, Will is diffident in the arrest scene, partially because he knows something is up, and waiting for the opportune moment (he's learning), and partially because this is who he is now, specifically with regards to Elizabeth and their relationship. Will idealizes Elizabeth which results in him catering to her, which in turn, results in her taking him for granted. The one time he does exert himself in this scene, ("Lord Beckett, in the category of questions not answered..."), Elizabeth cuts him off.

While I don't like the last part for the character, I *really* enjoy how Bloom works with this and marks this scene as definitely separate and apart from how he handles Will in the rest of the movie.

[elibad.livejournal.com]

Whipped!Will (and I don’t mean his reunion with dear old dad) is both incredibly irritating and strangely endearing, mostly because it seems so believable. I mean, Will is an orphan and while he may not have been seriously abused, he has probably been overlooked and neglected, with the exception of Elizabeth (and Jack, we can’t forget Jack). I sincerely doubt that Cmdr Norrington’s put down and dismissal of young William in CoTBP, was the first time he has been brushed off and ridiculed because of his background and station in life.

As a result of winning his ‘fair lady’s heart’ he’s been tossed into a world where he is considered inferior, and likely his temper only gets him into more trouble. So he differs to Elizabeth, she understands these “shark” infested waters so much better than he does. Also, the fact that the one time we saw him irritated with Elizabeth, she got all weepy and ran off, upset that Will couldn’t understand why she would have taken and kept the only thing of value (monetary and sentimental) a young boy who had (once again) lost everything, had, selfish git.

On the bright side, I do believe that this is a phenomenon restricted to Elizabeth, Will practically snarls at Governor Pops during the jail scene, when he thought ol’Therby may have been dissing him (and Jack, we can't forget Jack).

I have to agree whole heartedly on OB making a distinct line for his character with regards to SocietyWill and Pirate!Will. The distinction can also bee seen in the scene with Beckett, Will tones down his natural inclinations for ‘confrontation’ in a way he doesn’t later in scenes with Davy Jones. I’m not sure confrontation is the right word here, but Will’s a get-in-your-face kind of guy, and while he doesn’t exactly throw the gauntlet in Jones’ face he is definitely more “Will” like in his dealings with Jones than he is with Beckett. And like you, I am more inclined to give credit to OB. Just because he doesn’t chew through scenery like a mildly psychotic beaver with inferiority complex doesn’t mean the man can’t act.

And on a completely different note, while I am used to referring to the actors in may various fandoms by their initials (except Johnny, ‘cause he’s Johnny), the whole OB thing is giving me 5th grade sex ed flash backs.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Just because he doesn’t chew through scenery like a mildly psychotic beaver with inferiority complex

You know us Americans - if it's not loud, obnoxious, and over-the-top, it's not worth watching, ROFL. I love how detractors bitch and moan and hate that he doesn't react strongly enough, and when you point out the man is classically-trained (how often, in seven years of "Star Trek," did Jean-Luc Picard ever jump up and down and scream and yell like a banshee?), they sort of hem-haw around and mutter something about his age. One time, I actually had a hater tell me that OB shouldn't take roles he's offered if they're something he hasn't done before. (You know, just like I pass up writing articles for the paper that I've never done before. Uh huh.)

[elibad.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that the sheer volume and virulence of the hatred often surprises me, hate comms, reviewers hoping for violent deaths, its sad and a little sick. Seriously people, if you dislike him that much don't go see his films, don't buy the magazines he's all over and in. There will be another along right away, without him in it, somewhere.

Really, it's all about personal preference, there are a whack of actors I dislike (one in PoTC, in fact), complete with legitimate reasons and reasonable explanations (to me anyways), but some of these people who claim the 'hate' have seen everything he's ever been in (*I* just saw Elizabethtown this past weekend) quote all the scenes he sucks the hardest in (hee, look ma I'm twelve, and a slasher) sometimes it seems wordy old Bill had it right,"The lady doth protest too much, me thinks."

It's not 'cool' to like OB for various reasons; he's too pretty (one suggestion was he should just quit acting and model), he gets more coverage than personal favorites, he's had it too easy, hasn't paid his dues, yadda, yadda, blah, blah. But you said it, anyone given opportunities like his would un-apologetically jump at them and tell all detractors to 'bloody well sod off'.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

there are a whack of actors I dislike (one in PoTC, in fact)

OK, now I've gotta ask who this is. *G*

some of these people who claim the 'hate' have seen everything he's ever been in

I don't quite get that. If they've seen a big-name movie or a movie starring someone else and OB happened to be in it and they didn't like him, I can understand they didn't go to see him anyway. Fair enough. But if you hate someone, why would see a movie where they are the main star? I avoid Ben Affleck and most Kevin Costner movies like the plague for this reason - I don't like their acting, but I don't search for places to post my dislike.

And you want to talk about not paying dues? What about Haley Joel Osmet? Dakota Fanning? Brooke Shields? Topher Grace (for whom "That 70s Show" was his first job)? That's a copout reason to hate on someone; at least OB went to school for several years to be an actor.

[elibad.livejournal.com]

OK, now I've gotta ask who this is.

Keira Knightly. I quite liked her in CotBP, but then I saw 'Bend it like Beckham'. A lovely little film, with the exception of all the screeching and weird over-annunciation. The next time I watched CotBP, I found myself wishing she'd be less shrill. Pretty much avoided anything she's done since, with the exception of DMC. And I can honestly say, with respect to DMC, I have struggled with my dislike of the actor and my general discontent with her character's story arch.

at least OB went to school for several years to be an actor.

I think that *this* may be part of the issue. I mean, after graduating from a prestigious arts school, instead of suffering for his art in some obscure London theater, he went right into a minor, but visible role, in LoTR. Then while the whole LoTR thing was still playing out, he fell into (out of?) another minor but pivotal role in 'Blackhawk Down', then did a turn as 'Turner'. Pretty much everything he has done has been high profile, if not successful.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I actually liked "Bend It Like Beckham," probably partly because she DIDN'T get the guy in that one - he wasn't even interested in her (which I wouldn't care about if absolutely every man in POTC didn't pant after her). But I thought the music was great, and I like those types of movies anyway.

It's true part of OB's success has been his good looks. They've certainly opened doors for him; I just don't like it when someone presumes because someone is attractive, they can't have any talent beyond that. But, Johnny grew out of that criticism from the 80s, so may he will, too.

[elibad.livejournal.com]

Don't get me wrong, I really liked 'Bend it like Beckham', loved Parminder Nagra so much I actually tuned into ER for the first time in eons (and tuned right back out immediately, apologizing to Parminder repeatedly under my breath). It was just that moment in time when I realized I didn't like Keira.

Johnny grew out of that criticism from the 80s

And the 90s, in fact the universal 'Johnny' love seems fairly *cough* Captain Jack *cough* new. I mean Johnny has not always been considered the fantastic actor he is today, and he was, is, often criticized for his role selection, 'The Libertine' being the most recent.