Good trip and fictional musings

[veronica_rich]

Three weeks ago, my friend Susan got married, to a college professor she's known for more than a year. Like me, Susan is in her almost-mid-30s and I didn't think she'd ever get married, even though she did date and had lived with a guy before this one. At any rate, she was never searching for a husband, so I think that's the best way to go. (Unlike me - I do not live well with other humans, and I know this from experience. Sex would not abate that.)

Last night I went to her delayed wedding reception, and met a lot of new people (and some old ones, from the wedding and once or twice before, mostly his friends who'd adopted her into their circle). Susan was telling me how I ought to move closer to them (they live 100 miles from me, which is hard to visit because of gas prices) - of course I can't because of decreased job possibilities. But anyway, it was much fun and it's the first time in a long time that I've drank a LOT, didn't get drunk, and woke up this morning without a headache. Maybe I'm aging in reverse! LOL


Okay, fictional musings. In order to proceed to this next part, you have to have an interest in POTC2, you have to not be scared off by some spoilers (believe it or not, I am trying to avoid really major ones, but I've been sucked into looking at some of the still photos and seeing the two trailers now out), and you have to watch the current Japanese trailer first, especially near the end. It can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZhzUAs5W7I&eurl if you haven't seen it.


Near the end is a very brief cut-in scene of what looks like Jack and Elizabeth very close, facing, his hands up, almost like they're about to kiss or something. That's what I'm referring to herein.

I certainly hope this is either one of them leaning in to bluff and make a point, or a quick kiss that will result in the same reaction Marty McFly and Lorraine Baines had to each other in the 1950s part of "Back to the Future" when Lorraine tried to kiss him and felt icky for it.

HOWEVER ... I do not have the faith in the writers that others in this fandom seem to. My opinion is the first movie was saved much on the backs of Johnny and Gore fixing dialogue and plot points (I don't mean the other actors weren't good; what I mean is the writers did a less than stellar job and were saved from themselves. Listen to the writer commentary on the DVD sometime and how often they talk about being asked to change the script here and there, and THEIR ideas of what made the movie so successful). I have a worry - in the fictional sense, of course; I realize this isn't war in Iran or "real world" stuff - that these two are going to try to set up the old, tired, lame-ass "conflict between two men for the love of a woman" angle, using Will, Jack, and Elizabeth.

I know some on my f-list will disagree with my following statement just like some will disagree about my previous statement about Ted and Terry, but I'll say it anyway: Jack and Elizabeth are NOT a feasible pairing. They are too alike. They would work well together to achieve an end, and they could have a fabulous mentor-student partnership. But sexually? Just - NO. There IS tension in that threesome, but it's not between Jack and Will for the attentions of Elizabeth ...

Comments

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

If you're just going to hint at me, go right ahead and post it *G*.

(If you'll scout around the comments here, I had written at one point my suspicion about Jack being Elizabeth's daddy. I'd probably laugh so loud the theater security would have to be called, if that happened.)

[kaellana.livejournal.com]

Heh heh... all right, a watered down version. ;D

Let's get one thing out of the way – Jack has always wanted Elizabeth, right from when they first met. But wait, wait, I don't mean that like it sounds. Jack has always desired her. From "easy on the goods" to casually slinging his arm around her shoulder on the island... he wanted to have her, if only once. Which is, in my mind, perfectly in keeping with his character - this isn't love, but pure piratical lust, Jack's heart's desire remains the Pearl, through and through. What's more, Jack's always been certain he could have Elizabeth, if the opportunity arose. He's a compulsive ladies man, after all, and the idea that his charm doesn't work on everyone is (to him) inconceivable.

Elizabeth knows this, and uses it to her advantage several times in DMC (yes, there are a couple more J/E scenes), to the point where you actually feel quite sorry for Jack. She does the job so well that several other characters (and perhaps even herself, for a time) are convinced she feels something for Jack, something that maybe even surpasses base physical attraction. A major theme that spans over both sequels is trust, or rather the lack of it; due to various actions taken by various people (not only Elizabeth and Jack) the characters stop trusting each other. The only pair that remain sure of each other are Will and Elizabeth.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

**EYEROLL** (No, not aimed at you. I quite thank you for your insight, actually.)

Well, it'll be interesting, is all I can say about it, LOL. I'm a J/W girl at heart (and I believe it could be borne out by canon), but I decided long ago to just approach the movies as Disney canon and see what the writers and actors can come up with that I'm willing to believe. I just hope the sequels are as good as the original, is my main thing.

[kaellana.livejournal.com]

Interesting would be the right word, indeed! *G* Personally I do think the sequels will match the original, although others have their doubts. There's a little part of me that thinks they might even surpass the original, but I'm not going to tempt fate, just in case. Though many characters are taken in new directions, their actions are always justified by the writers, it's not suddenly "omg he lurves her!1!!", or "omg he hates him!1!" - which is all most people can usually hope for when sequels are on the horizon.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

As I was telling someone else on this post, it all boils down to fantasyland - we may feel an ownership in the characters, but the people who brought them to life, invented them, have the right to do whatever they want with them. (I only ask that anything they do have a basis in some sort of logic progression.)

[captsparrow4evr.livejournal.com]

The only pair that remain sure of each other are Will and Elizabeth.

Hmmm, so we don't see Jack and Will's friendship tested by their mutual "feelings" for Elizabeth? Will doesn't question Elizabeth's fidelity at all even though he supposedly sees this snog with Jack? I don't know about that. (Then again, were I Will, I'd always be questioning Light-fingered Lizzie's motives. Probably why she and Jack are "peas in a pod.")

In any case, we knew from the very first movie that Jack was a sexual opportunist. Hoping for possibilities with any lovely is in his nature so just the fact that he "desires" Elizabeth doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

[kaellana.livejournal.com]

Oh no, Jack and Will's friendship is definitely tested (and not just because of Elizabeth), and Will does have very real worries about his fiancé. Perhaps "remain sure of each other" was poor wording on my part, apologies. What I meant to say was, despite whatever doubts or worries each has for the other, Will and Elizabeth remain a solid duo, fighting for the same overall thing. :)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I love your avatar there ...

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

No, that Jack is an opportunist isn't in question. It's that he would be made a repeated fool of for such over the same woman is what makes me cock an eyebrow in askance. Did I simply misunderstand Jack's intelligence in the first movie, or are the writers drunk?

[dressagespirit.livejournal.com]

Thank you for voicing what I've been thinking but what I've been afraid to say. Sorry, but I don't like Elizabeth. She is reckless and lives in a world that is so very different from the one both Jack and Will live in. Would Jack want her simply because she's a woman? Well, he IS an opportunist, so, yes in that respect. But I just don't see him falling for her chicanery. I mean, come on, the man has way more intelligence and cunning than that. He wouldn't have survived for so long or gotten his ship back without it.

On another note, I believe in Jack as the mythic Trickster/Trickster Hero figure, and the proposed scene with Elizabeth just doesn't work for that, IMO. I was concerned to read that Depp was the one who had to point out to T&T that Jack is a Trickster (his comparison was to Bugs Bunny, like the writers mention on the DVD) and that Jack does not change. I wonder what T&T are thinking of Jack. It's also a bit discouraging that they don't seem to have the script for No. 3 written and yet they are filming it. Verbinski even has seemed disturbed in the interviews I've seen written with him, making comments about never filming two movies at once again.

The trailers and spoilers really cause me to wonder if I will see the sequels. The first movie was just so fresh and different - IMO because of Depp's portrayal of Jack - that I'm not sure I want that ruined.

Again, these are all my opinions, and I know that many folks are very happy about the spoilers and the possible storylines.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I want to take this opportunity to clarify something else, as well - no, you didn't say it; nobody has, yet. But it NEEDS to be said, especially for all the squeeing J/E fangurls who would accuse me of merely being a poor sport.

It's NOT about the Jack/Will. It's really not. I know - and 99.9 percent of Turrow (and Sparrington, and Willington) fans are sane and realistic about commerce and public taste, and were prepared and perfectly glad to accept Will and Elizabeth ending up together, Jack and James not ending up together. It's just what was supposed to happen by the dynamic of the first story setup, even despite all the slashy subtext. Hell, that was just subversive fun. *G*

This whole kink with Jack/Elizabeth, though ... it smacks to me of a need for SOME sort of hetero sexual pairing, no matter how ill-conceived, to create tension. Whereas I think a much BETTER tension-ratcheter, something that COULD be done within canon, would be Elizabeth versus Jack over Will - in the sense that Jack is trying to lure Will to a (non-slash) life at sea, freedom, and the like, and Elizabeth is trying to hang on to him to stay in her world, either on land or at least with her at sea. Jack could offer Will a wider range of travel, excitement, experience, connection with his long-lost father, etc.; Elizabeth could offer him companionship, sex, possibly children, financing for their travels, etc.

I mean, jeez.

[dressagespirit.livejournal.com]

There is actually, IMO, a very good fanfic out there that is about that. It's called "The Sacking of Port Royal," and I'm thinking it may be posted at the Black Pearl Sails fanfic site. That idea makes for a wonderful story and would make for a great trilogy, especially since we see how Will must struggle with many things and take the Hero's journey. Your idea is much more mythic, which is something that I think existed in the first movie.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I just finished reading that story not too long ago. You're right, it's very well written, and would make a great movie, actually (or part of one). They act in character, yet it's got excitement and adventure.

[shyaway.livejournal.com]

Can I have this comment gift-wrapped for my birthday? I agree with everything you said (except for wondering about whether I'll see the sequels - I know I'll see DMC no matter what...).

I was concerned to read that Depp was the one who had to point out to T&T that Jack is a Trickster (his comparison was to Bugs Bunny, like the writers mention on the DVD) and that Jack does not change.

The blog entry didn't say who prevailed in that discussion. Here's hoping it was Johnny!

[dressagespirit.livejournal.com]

Gee, thanks. :-) Sure, I'll find some POTC wrapping paper to put around it. I'm guessing they'll have that, along with the thousands of other merchandising ideas they have out. LOL

I'm thinking Depp is the one who prevailed because he seems pretty attached to Jack.

[shyaway.livejournal.com]

And you just know it would have pictures from the first movie...

You're probably right, it seems as though Depp would fight very hard for Jack, and he probably has more clout than the writers.

[shyaway.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. I don't like Elizabeth or J/E, but what is really wrong with this development is that Jack falls for the same thing twice. It's beyond belief that he would be that naive. Nor can I believe that he would continue to pursue someone who keeps rejecting him - he is much more pragmatic than that, and didn't Depp describe him as lazy? I just don't think he would bother.