quick and dirty AWE thoughts

[veronica_rich]

I liked AWE.

Yes, that's an incredible statement. No, I haven't had anything to drink this morning, thanks.

It's the "Back to the Future Syndrome" as my sister calls it: First movie good, second movie horrifyingly WTF?, third movie redeems ... somewhat.

THE BAD

Norrington dies. Norrington dies in a SUCKY way. We wanted to throw things at the screen. WTF, T&T?? (Although, I did like his answer to Jones as he lay dying - I just wish it had been aimed at Beckett instead.) I wanted him to escape. Or something. I can only hope Will finds him and either brings him back or gives him an escort fitting to his character.

It drags a bit in some parts. Yes, I appreciate plotting and intricacies, but there's a LOT of exposition to this thing. And still, there are some crucial things not explained; you'll see what I mean, come back and talk to me about it.

THE GOOD

Jack. Jack, you're back. I missed you, mate. Lordy, how I missed you and your wonderfully dualistic scoundrel vs. good man nature. I knew it was possible for you to be both - I saw it when we first met. (But I still wouldn't trust you with my purse.)

Elizabeth. THIS is the woman I remember. THIS is the logical continuation of the girl in CotBP. I thought I would hate you for getting all the attention in AWE, based on spoilers. I was wrong - it was done with some logic (the whole Calypso-mistaken thing), and I feel like you actually learned from your mistakes, suffered some guilt, and grew up in this movie. Mon Dieu, dare I say I actually like you again? And no, I don't think it's OOC for you to marry Will and stay faithful to him for ten years. You've been after him the entire time - I don't understand why some people didn't see that. I don't understand how I lost my way in DMC thinking otherwise for even a moment. Yes, Jack is a tempting little pastry, but he's not a "forever" kind of guy - and let's face it, he wouldn't treat you nearly as well as you'd like.

Davy. Yeah, you. I sympathized with you. I actually sort of liked you.

Beckett. You're an ass and deserved to die ... but I like how you faced your end. There's something unresolved between you and Jack, and I'd like to know what it is.

THE SPECTACULAR

Barbossa. Despite all, I didn't hate you in CotBP, though I'm glad you died at Jack's hand. But you totally made up for it here. I LIKE you. I can SHIP you now in a way I couldn't before. I can see how you and Jack could've gotten along at one time (though on the same ship, I'm still trying to figure that out). And dude? If I EVER get married, I'm totally looking you up to perform the ceremony.

THE WILL

Will. Oh, William. You had me at "A craftsman is always pleased to hear his work is appreciated," but I love you in a way I didn't think possible for a fictional character. *G* You are without a doubt the CENTER of this story, even if you're not the most colorful character or the most experienced. I love that you really didn't give Elizabeth an option there at the very end - she married you and, by God, you expected her to uphold her vows (though I can totally get around it in fanfic and expect others can as well, without disrespecting either Will or Elizabeth). For once, you exercised your selfishness, and it was at the right time - I don't care what others say, that if you loved her, you'd let her go. Would she you? I don't think so. (Maybe if the two of you agreed on terms, or something, for an open relationship without falling out of love with each other ... we'll just have to see.) Anyway, you're a fabulous character; anyone knocking you is just pissed off that you've learned so well from Jack. (And it was nice to see that he learned from you, too - "leverage" indeed.)

THE HO-YAY

Oh yes, my friends, it was there. Slashy goodness abounds between Jack and Will. Just gotta figure out the terms - I don't want to kill off Elizabeth or shaft her. And for the first time, I actually *saw* OT3. (Though I would totally still read Calypso/Will as well. I love how Will saves them all by reminding her at the last minute who she's REALLY pissed off at.)

What's more, I like how Jack and Will related to one another, period. Good interaction, good scenes. The look on Jack's face when Will is stabbed - priceless. Just priceless. (And no, he didn't save Will because of Elizabeth. I think he honestly did it for both her AND Will himself.)

GENERAL THOUGHTS

Will is either not as inexperienced as he looks, or he has an incredible knack of figuring out what Elizabeth likes after only one roll in the hay. The way he nuzzled her knee and the look on her face - DAMN. Sign me up for the Dutchman! And their goodbye kiss was heartbreaking.

If I hadn't known how the movie would end, I still would've figured it out - it's not like they BEAT US OVER THE HEAD WITH WILL'S DESTINY at every opportunity, or anything. Geez o pete. And I'm glad I read spoilers and had the chance to get used to Will's destiny (and that I thought of it last July on my own), or I might've had problems with it - as it is, I have figured out somewhat how to work around it and appreciate it somewhat.

I don't agree that Elizabeth's end is OOC. She made her choice, and it's obvious she's in a different place than she was when she last saw Will. If she can pick up and travel like that, it's entirely plausible she's been having adventures - I mean, look at the kid. That kid looks eager for adventure, too! I can't feature either of them having sat around on their duffs for a decade, doing nothing productive or enjoyable while waiting for Dad to come back.

Symbolism. This time, the symbolism served the plot, not the other way around. I can appreciate it better when that happens. (Such as, what's with Will's white shirt at the very end? He was wearing red when we last saw him go into the sea.)

The scene at the beginning. Could you BE any more politically prothelyzing for current times? (Not that I'm complaining. Or disagreeing.) We're meant to think this is what's happening now in Port Royal, but I submit to you that perhaps it's an AU - what could've happened had Beckett won in the end. Why? Because I wonder if the kid who is hanged is the same as Young Turner ... in a different fate.

Bill - I hate how he was used against Norrington (!!!), but I liked the little "Take the helm, Mr. Turner." "Aye, Captain Turner." bit at the end. Lots of good dialogue fic how they learn to relate to one another not as father and son, but as ... well, a sort of Underworld Jack and Gibbs.

'Shipping. Even I can see how different 'shippers can work with what we're given. (Yes, even the Norrington fans, though there are a few twists that'll have to be accomplished first.) For once, I saw possibilities for J/E - mildly, but present. Or, rather, I should say I saw OT3 with Will at the center, and the two of them enjoying each other's presence - but really NEEDING his to complete the threesome.

FINALLY

If you didn't like AWE, I understand. I will not tell you you're crazy. I will not discount your opinion. I may disagree with it, but I won't dismiss it or call you nutters. I know how that feels, believe me.

And you? What did you think?

Comments

[lost-due-east.livejournal.com]

You know, first thing I said when we got out of the movie theater last night was "I -liked- this movie, and I don't care what anyone says - it was awesome wrapped in awesome fried in awesome." I do agree with the bad points, but this movie was exactly what I needed in terms of series closure (if it is indeed over?)

I wanted to offer perhaps one point of contention to a theory - not to ruin the party or anything, promise. You said perhaps the hanged boy in the beginning is an alternate Will Jr. Jr., but I believe (and I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain) that the Hanged Boy's eyes were blue, and Will Jr. Jr.'s were brown. Bearing that in mind, the theory can still be toyed with, but it'll need a workaround.

[scifiroots.livejournal.com]

I heard a couple people talking about that as we were leaving the theatre last night. As far as I can remember, the boys looked different. I remember getting the impression that the boy at the beginning was more of a cabinboy sort of age/look about him and the ending boy looked younger, y'know, closer to his age of 9. *shrugs* could be wrong though.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Well, I didn't pay such attention to the eye color, but even if it's two different kids, then it can be taken as presented literally, and that's OK, too. *G*

Closure, yes. This provided it in spades. Salut!

[vejiicakes.livejournal.com]

A full novela on my reaction to AWE will by typed up by morning (it's 6am here now, so I guess I mean.. later, when I've woken up again) though I'm very interested in your little!Will theory and that beginning sequence. Which I've just realized, I didn't really see the significance of.

I was all set to agree with lost_due_east only I remembering going on some site that credits all the performers, which included some kid credited as Young Will Turner. No other children were present, and boy did that tracking shot look like it was supposed to be significant (perhaps moreso than as a simple, "Look! They're even hanging a kid!" shot) And I can't tell if it was or wasn't either way, because all these floppy haired impoverished looking gangly white children look the same to me. So unless that was a cut scene the credited kid was in, that probably was young Will Turner, which means you're probably right on that count! Bizarre.

I wonder what Beckett meant by his, "Finally," comment. "Finally, it's a Disney movie-it's about time the masses broke out into song?"

[theguiltyone.livejournal.com]

His 'finally' was in reference to the singing of the Brethern's song. It summoned them together, which meant he could finally go after them as a group. He upped the level of suffering til it was necessary to call them.

[scifiroots.livejournal.com]

"Finally, it's a Disney movie-it's about time the masses broke out into song?"

Oh god, that was exactly what I was thinking before he even said it. *snickers* I just about face-palm'd when the guy came up saying "They're started singing." (Where's my "thank you captain obvious" icon when I need it?)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

because all these floppy haired impoverished looking gangly white children look the same to me

And that may be my problem, as well. (Seriously, all kids of a certain age look alike to me, unless set obviously apart by their color or gender. Maybe that's just because I don't want any, so I don't see them as particularly special, though. *G*)

[moonspinner.livejournal.com]

Will is either not as inexperienced as he looks, or he has an incredible knack of figuring out what Elizabeth likes after only one roll in the hay.

Odd how in a movie filled with undead pirates and trapped deities, that's the one 'suspending disbelief' moment! *g* But I loved it anyway.



We're meant to think this is what's happening now in Port Royal, but I submit to you that perhaps it's an AU - what could've happened had Beckett won in the end. Why? Because I wonder if the kid who is hanged is the same as Young Turner ... in a different fate.

Oooh! Clever!

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure the kids are the same anymore, but it's still an idea someone enterprising could work with in fanfic ...

[gryphons-lair.livejournal.com]

One infers that some of the more obvious WTF!? moments in the spoiler script are changed or explained to the point where they work? There are hints here and there in your post (CF: what N said to DJ) that suggest that.

I said I wouldn't watch AWE unless a certain very specific list of people liked it. You were one of them. So I'm debating if I want to see the thing, now. Feel free to convince me. *G*

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Well, there are other people who didn't like it, who you'll probably respect more because you all have the same 'ships and characters. *G* Keep in mind, I'm a Will Turner girl - but they treated most of the other characters with respect as well, and that's what made me happy.

[crevette.livejournal.com]

I liked it. I'm still torn about the cruelty of the ending to Will and Liz, but I get it. And everything doesn't always have to have a happy ending. I know this. But still.... I'm still in my head here rewriting how they could have been together. And I'm not big on Elizabeth, even though you're right, they really did make up for the character assassination of DMC in this one.

AND I really did enjoy Will wheeling and dealing with the big boys, holding his own and standing toe to toe with Davy Jones and bitching about the loss of his tea while showing no fear of squidface.

And knowing that Davy Jones killed Will just to be CRUEL. No other reason. He knew he was a goner but he did it anyway, just to deny them happiness.

I'm considering waking the kid up (we got back at 3:30 AM and I've been up since 7:30 after to bed at 4:30) and going to see it again. I don't know if I can sit through it again so soon though.

I do want to sit and talk with SOMEONE about it and their reactions to it. GRRR.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not really clear from the movie (because of cuts), but T&T have confirmed that they intended the curse to be broken after ten years. So at least their separation isn't permanent.

[elessil.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you liked it. I really am, just wanted to make that clear despite all I said about the movie, I'm happy if people I care about it got a great time out of it.

Plus, I never stop plotting and planning for long.

And obviously, word about Norrington, but you didn't need me to SAY that, did you ;)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

No, I didn't think you were bitter. And there are more people than you who didn't care for AWE. I just want to make it clear that unlike some fans, I will not question other people's dislike of something I really liked - I've gotten that all too often over the past 10 months, and I'm fed up with it. So if you catch me doing it, conk me in the noggin. *G*

[wicked-swann.livejournal.com]

I liked most of the movie, but I could have lived without the whole singing of the song at the beginning, which made it insanely slow paced. I did NOT like the ending. It was incredibly depressing. And dammit, I knew there would be a kid.

Three cheers for Barbossa! My love for him has grown so much.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Barbossa is like my favorite uncle in this movie. Death really has altered his priorities - or at least his nature, which doesn't seem nearly as nasty and bloodthirsty as it was. Maybe death reverts you to your old self before you were so far corrupted? (Hmmmm ... fic idea for Will having to ferry dead Davy Jones to the Other Side ...)

[geekmama.livejournal.com]

I loved it, on a visceral level I loved everything about it (except James' death -- that was a waste), and I didn't expect to. I agree that there is something for nearly every shipper in it, no matter who they ship, but I think they did a great job drawing all the threads together and making this one whole cloth. It just worked for me, from beginning to end.

More later. Didn't get to bed until 5 a.m. *g*

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I loved and didn't expect to, either. It seems like a return to CotBP form - finding a way to please *almost* everyone (minus a couple of deaths, yes - but let's consider for a moment, those souls haven't crossed over yet, and now look who is in charge of that job ...).

[starrdust411.livejournal.com]

I didn't like the movie. It's hard to explain, but I really thought it was too full of random stuff happening.

I thought that Elizabeth was a little bit annoying in the begining, but after that she didn't get under my skin too much (wasn't Sao Fen at the first meeting to trap Calypso? Wouldn't he know what she should look like?) The ending really irked me because I thought that Elizabeth and Will got cheated out of a happily ever after. I agree that Elizabeth isn't just sitting on the island waiting for Will, but there's also the fact that she can only see him once every ten years and since she lives in the 17th Century or whatever that means she'll only get to see him about a few more times before she dies. Couldn't Lizzie just sware an oath to him and join him on the Dutchman?

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'm completely over Elizabeth's behavior in DMC, but AWE did go a longer way toward making me forgive her than I thought possible. I've been excessively hard on the woman (for good reason) for 10 months and it's just nice to lay off now that she's acting like a grown-up, more.

I think fic can work around what we were given in canon. In fact, if I didn't know better, I'd say AWE was written specifically with fanficcers in mind - even those who died haven't crossed over yet, and look who's in charge of their destinies!

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

I loved almost everything about it. Though it was a bit much to cram in, even with the three hour running time. I suspect there's another hour of deleted scenes (that had better make their way onto the AWE DVD).

"Will is either not as inexperienced as he looks, or he has an incredible knack"

Besides that fact that Will and Liz seem to have a rapport in battle scenes and negotiations (something that should spill over into more intimate moments), I'm guessing that being god-adjacent gives Will a "knack." ;-)

I loved the "tea party" scene. Will doing his best Jack Impersonation. (But we get a peak at earlyCotBP!Will playing with the globe! Sqee!) I loved that Jack knocked Will over with his breath! AND that Will said "I hate him" for it. :-P

Knowing Bootstrap mechanically cut out Will's heart makes me kinda queasy. And poor Bootstrap - I guess that's the mystical/magical version of Alzheimer's. And poor Gov. Swann. And poor Norrington. (Though both characters at least managed to remain a bit dignified.)

And the extra kisses Liz collected didn't bother me as much as I expected. Nor did her quick rise to Pirate Royalty. And, watching the little bit after the credits, I'd say she's doing anything but sitting on her hands, waiting idly for Will to come back.

I'd also say, based on what's presented just in the film, that Will's immortality is permanent. (I try to keep my definition of canon - for film - to what appears in the theatrical or DVD release.) So, he'll be needing a replacement for Liz some day. Hmmmnnn....

Sorry for the delete. It needed the edit.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

But we get a peak at earlyCotBP!Will playing with the globe!

I wonder if you and I are the only two people who noticed how he broke off the sextant (or whatever it is) and hastily covered it. I snorted out loud! You can make the clumsy kid grow up, but you can't take him entirely out of the man. LOL

(I should be online tonight sometime if you want to chat more ...)

[ainsoph15.livejournal.com]

Oh, Ver, I'm so glad you liked it!
I was so worried that I was going to hate it, and I didn't. There's so much to love about it. I'm actually still in a semi-euphoric state with how frickin' gorgeous the whole film is. I want to bundle it up into a ball and roll around with it on the floor, it's that pretty.
I have a feeling I'm going to have days and days of incredibly anal rigorous theorising, as I try to see how many ways I can interpret the damn thing. I love CotBP (and will always love it most), and I really quite like DMC, but, and I don't know if this is because of the set-up of the previous films, AWE seems so much richer. There are even more layers, and symbols, and ways to read the film, but it feels more natural here, more polished.

At the second viewing of the film, when I saw Jack's reaction and subsequent turmoil when Will is stabbed, I thought about the 'mind-meld' they had in the film, trying to think like each other. At this moment, I wouldn't wonder if Jack's thinking, 'What would Will do?' Just a thought...

But I have to say, honestly, as if anyone (especially YOU) could suggest that they doubt Will's prowess and natural abilities ;) Really, he's a very fast learner (c.f. sudden aptitude for sailing after little or no training), and he's just brilliant at everything else, so is it likely that he's going to be crap in bed? Oh my, that wouldn't do at all. It would totally ruin everything.

*tries to imagine any possible kind of AU where Will Turner is not an extraordinary lay*

No, THAT would be OOC.

[crevette.livejournal.com]

I sort of read Jack's internal struggle with the heart also going back to his father--He said something to the effect of, "It's not about living forever, it's how you live with yourself forever."

And Jack couldn't have lived with himself if he'd let the whelp die like that, I bet.

I especially thought the juxtaposition of Davy Jone's comment to Jack, "You're a cruel man" to Davy Jone's cruelty of killing Will--and twisting the sword--TWICE--to make it more painful. He didn't have any reason to kill Will at that moment--it wasn't going to change the situation or his position--he just DID it to be cruel.

I'm feeling better watching it the second time. I'm still pissy about the ten years, but I'll get over it.

I suppose it is a testament to the skill of the writers and actors that I care so much about the ending of a pair of fictional characters in a summer popcorn flick.

[azziria.livejournal.com]

"The way he nuzzled her knee and the look on her face - DAMN. Sign me up for the Dutchman!"

Um... yes... very much yes...

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

*drool, slobber*

[mad-martha.livejournal.com]

I got back from seeing it this afternoon and so far I can't assemble any coherent thoughts about it other than to confirm that I loved it very much. And so did my mother :-)

I hope to see it again sometime this weekend; perhaps I'll have meaningful thoughts to share afterwards. Is it me, or is it a very BIG movie? An awful lot to process in one go, hence the need for a second viewing.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

It needs watched a few times, oh yes. Sort of like CotBP (not the way I watched DMC, which was with disbelief and "WTF are they doing?"). Did Mom melt into goo over Nuzzly!Will at the end, too?

[elibad.livejournal.com]

I liked it as well.

Both Jack and Elizabeth were back and much more like we knew and loved them. Some great Jack and Will moments. It both kills me and makes me ridiculously happy that it was Jack that Will talked to about his fears over losing Elizabeth. And Will, well Will was amazing, and I love that they showed that Will was not a clod on his wedding night...day...beach...what-ever.

Could have done without the weird, giant, Tia and the incredible spinning wheel of cheese that was Elizabeth's speech.

Oh and greatest. Wedding. Ever.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Some people are saying the conversation with Jack was weird, given that Jack is who is giving him his chief fits over Elizabeth. But I disagree; Elizabeth's already basically said "Who, HIM? I'm not even going to dignify that with a denial," so I think Will understands it's a basic personality/communication problem with Elizabeth. I mean, we already know there was never anything of any real thread anyway between Jack and Elizabeth. (Or, you know, he could be trying to play on Jack's sympathy if there's any to be had, to leave the situation alone. It's a long shot, but he has nothing to lose by this point anyway.)

[surreal-44.livejournal.com]

I loved the film, pretty much from beginning to end. I went and saw the movie again on Friday (saw it first on Thursday night :-) ), and the bits I didn't like from my first viewing I warmed up to.

Rambly explanation of the beach scene -- Bear with me, I've had 3 hours of sleep in 72 hours. :p

I have to disagree with the idea that Will was being selfish on the beach scene...watch his face as he's nuzzling Elizabeth's knee. He goes from having that adorable grin on his face to looking uncertain and vulnerable, and his eyes open just the tiniest bit. I wondered about that, then he notes that the sun is setting.

I love how he asks Elizabeth to watch over his heart...that was so sweet, and then they're ready to say good-bye...I was so sure they'd kiss, but he just touches his forehead to hers gently and pulls away (her eyes are shut, waiting for that kiss, Will is looking at her for what he thinks is the last time). That moment I realized what Will was doing; he was releasing her from her vow, he doesn't think or expect her to wait for him.

He walks off, and Elizabeth opens her eyes, and I love her reaction. She's stunned, then she shakes her head and kind of whispers "No", and then she races over to him and kisses him, determined to show him that she WILL wait for him.

That was one of the most poignant scenes in the entire film for me. At least that's how I saw the scene. Maybe it's lack of sleep and decent food that's getting to me. :-)

I'm glad you enjoyed it though! I plan on seeing it again this weekend. Lots of little details to take in, and I apparently love death scenes because I want to see Norrie and Will kick their respective buckets yet again.

I love angst. Ohhh, and this opens the door for all kinds of Norrington/Will love. Am I right, or am I right? :-)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I've only seen it the once, my views are subject to change - but I like your interpretation, too! I'll have to watch more closely; I was too busy doing that little "humdala" melting thing watching Will nuzzle her knee to observe details properly ...

[herm42.livejournal.com]

I liked it quite a bit too - just saw it last night. The only things I didn't like was the lack of closure, assuming they WON'T be making a fourth, though they certainly left it wide open, and the over the top parts that stretched from imaginative fantasy to gimme-a-break.

I must say that though I liked it, I liked your ending better. :)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

You mean my Big Long-Ass Story? *G*

[herm42.livejournal.com]

favorite part: davy jones menacing jack with tentacles and boogey-man "BLAAARLKLRLRLRLLRLRRG!"

[herm42.livejournal.com]

second fav moment: HOT Will immediately after taking up his position as ferry boat captain for the dead in that black shirt and nnnnhg.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I'd be glad for that Death to ferry me around for a while.

[chibikat-wtf.livejournal.com]

I liked when Jack tried to kiss the goat.

Seriously, though, I wasn't a huge fan. I liked parts of it (the absurdist bit with the multiple Jacks; when Jack leaned over to breathe on Will, I thought they were going to kiss...alas, so close). On the whole, though, it was...lacking. The bit with Keith Richards was pretty pointless except to get Keith Richards in there, and Keira Knightley's Elizabeth reminded me more of my 15-year-old cousin than a smart woman in charge.

I liked the ending, though I wonder why Elizabeth didn't just go with him for a while.

Better than DMC, but in my books, that doesn't take much. :(

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Better than DMC, but in my books, that doesn't take much.

You know, going in to AWE, I was totally *just* in it for the Will-ness. I thought, If they'll treat him well and give him a storyline I can work with, I'll be satisfied. And they did for the most part, and some of the other characters woke up and and sort of started acting like themselves again, and it was OK.