I thought we were trying to fix *our* economy

[veronica_rich]

Does anyone want a go at actually trying to explain why in blue blazes the Democrats - or either part - needs to include anything about Israel in its platform? Do they have a listing of all countries' self-chosen capital cities in them that I've never heard of before?

Not for the first time, I feel like the United States is being goaded, guilted, and pressured into taking sides in the case of a balls-out full-scale eventual war among Middle Eastern countries. This isn't an unusual thing, of course - a country wanting us to be on their side in order to provide supplies and/or military backup - but my problem with this is I feel like we can't discuss the merits of allying with (or not) Israel like we would discuss any other political entity globally recognized as a sovereign nation. Because there are too many people who mix up "Jewish" with "Israeli" and automatically think they should equal one another (hint: they equal one another about like "Christianity" and "USA" do, for me). I've had people who know me who I could tell were biting back the word "anti-Semitic" when I've said this in person, trying to decide if it applies to me, because (a) I'm pretty tolerant of most practices of all cultures, and so why would I be? and (b) they could not, in their minds, divorce religion from country and fathom that Israel is not a big nation-sized synagogue - it's a country. Non-Jews* are also citizens there. Many Jews are citizens of other countries and not Israel. I know these facts from my learnings.

Also, I suspect some people side-eye me because I persist in recognizing Palestinians and Palestine as equitable to Israeli and Israel, with respect to ... you know, existing. I haven't heard a good argument yet why I should not.

*(People who don't practice the Jewish faith. I know there are Jewish people religiously and there are Jewish people ethnically. It's not my fault someone hasn't had the imagination to come up with separate names for them. My discussion is about religion =/= nation.)

Comments

[johnnypenn.livejournal.com]

I know the difference between Jewish and Israeli. One is Religious and one is national.
It's like me saying I'm Christian and American. I never was confused on this. lol.

Anyway, sometimes I think we should just let them fight it out once and for all. All their hee-hawing gets annoying after a while.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

You may not be confused on it, but a lot of people are! I tried to explain what I meant by Zionism being a philosophy apart from religion a couple of years ago, to a co-worker (you know, since it's predicated on ethnicity; whereas anyone can convert to Judaism), and they came really close to accusing me of something ugly because they'd always equated the two.

[keechakatt.livejournal.com]

I agree with you. I just have never quite understood the squabble. Why can't everyone live in peace there, come up with a name that's agreeable to both parties and be done with it. All this loss of life for a pile of dirt.

I use to date a man who called himself Jewish culturally. He never went to Synagogue, honored Passover or Hanukkah, so what culturally is left? He never explained it, yet get fanatical at the slightest inclination of an anti Semitic remark. I don't think remarks like that are cool either, but he would be ugly angry the whole day. Then again he was ugly angry about everything! He dumped me for another girl and got totally burned. It was one of the best days of my life.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

One of them has something the other side wants - we as a nation have been in those sorts of conflicts before, right or wrong. I just get tired of things that injure and kill being driven by religion, or at least cited as such. Religious systems were ancient attempts to explain the unknowable, so I'm not sure how that ever became conflated with justifying deliberate manmade conflict.

[nazz88.livejournal.com]

It's quite symptomatic and similar to what happened some years ago in Germany:
The Israel Prime minister was on state visit, and after Berlin and a lot of other stops in the country he went to see the German Jewish Council in Frankfurt and held a speech. Afterwards the chairman of this council was asked by a TV journalist - "what did it feel like to speak to a fellow countryman?" The answer of the chairman was just: "He's not my countryman because he's from Israel and I am a German, my family is German since the Middle ages."
This just left me open-mouthed in front of the TV. In Germany every pupil is treated in school about the ugly history and what Germans did to Jewish people during the last century, including the foundation of modern Israel. And still "educated" people, like this journalist who has to be treated with at least some higher education, was so ignorant.
grrr...

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that question was not worded well. I wonder if the interviewer meant to refer to their shared religion and just said it wrong (which is still no explanation, since "countryman" implies that nationalism specifically; I think I might've asked "... to someone who's not of your nation but shares your religion?").

[nazz88.livejournal.com]

This surely wasn't a problem of wording. The journalist mixed religion and nationality up, he equated Jewish = Israeli. He could've just said, "what was it like to speak to the Israeli Prime Minister (who also shares your religion)?", or something like that.

[the-dark-snack.livejournal.com]

You really need to get ahold of the new HBO series "The Newsroom" as soon as you can. You will adore the content (plus seeing Jack get to cuss is wonderful).

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I keep getting told to watch it, but I'm too cheap for HBO, LOL.

[the-dark-snack.livejournal.com]

It'll be on disc coon so you can get it then.