fannish musings

[veronica_rich]

(This is POTC fandom stuff, just FYI for readers)

I just realized its been about five years exactly since AWE came out in theaters - I think it was Memorial Day weekend 2007. I thought about how my fannish life changed in the year or so on either side of that. Before DMC or so in 2006, I'd been in a few fandoms and they were always fun and inclusive, and had room for porn and thoughtful plot discussion and zillions of possibilities - like a big fraternity where all opinions and likes were respected. But after DMC came out, I saw a different kind of fandom - one where some bossypants who wanted to be the queen and her court talked down to, dismissed, abraded, booed, ostracized, and belittled anyone who didn't agree with their opinions exactly. It eventually killed my love for the fandom, some of those fans and what they liked, and my desire to write as much - and I really thought I'd never enjoy a fandom again. Thank heavens for the wide range of humor and other possibilities in Red Dwarf, which helped renew a lot of that. However, I still have residual feelings about POTC fandom 5 years out (I'm sorry, I don't count the fourth movie - I didn't care about it at all), just not all strong ones. Like:

1) Plus: I'm a lot more sure what feminism should include and what it should not, for me. I refined my opinions dealing with fans who seem to have gotten their educations at the University of We Confuse The Ability To Have Sex With Anyone We Want With Being A Strong Woman. I'm pretty sure defining a female character by whatever dick she's riding is still sexist, even if you like that dick better than any other dick in the movies.

2) Minus: I really am indifferent to Depp and anything he does these days. When I see a new movie of his is coming out, I roll my eyes and wonder what lunacy his more strident fangirls on LJ are going to cook up to cause problems in that fandom. They sucked out every bit of fun for many of us who enjoyed POTC at one time.

3) Minus: There are a few certain LJers that, no matter what else they might ever do on LJ, I will always associate with being assholes because they were assholes in that fandom. Maybe they have more than one-note personalities, but you couldn't prove it by me.

4) To end on a plus - Will Turner is still the cat's pajamas. That is all. ^..^

Comments

[pseudoblu.livejournal.com]

Wow. I can't believe it's been that long and I still get an annoyed anxious feeling whenever I try to look at PotC fic. The JEers really ruined everything.

Will will always be the cat's pajamas.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I haven't read a POTC fic, except for a drabble here and there, in at least two years, I don't think. When I'm done with something, I'm usually done with it, sadly.

[keechakatt.livejournal.com]

#4 MEOW. I state in agreement. XD

[giselleslash.livejournal.com]

I wasn't in the fandom anywhere near the level you were and while I don't know the specifics or usernames I do know just seeing how the J/E shippers operated from a distance killed a lot of POTC joy for me too. I can imagine the bad taste is lingering for those that were heavily involved, like yourself.

But then again, there's always Will Turner to calm our frazzled nerves and make everything right again. :)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I really wouldn't know what's going on in anything with the fandom except I'm still subbed to despatches, mostly since I'm the mod for 2-3 communities and it's a courtesy. Once in a while something pops up that makes me roll my eyes over the fandom still, but 99.9 percent of my fannish time I don't even think of POTC now.

[starrdust411.livejournal.com]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that it's been five years since AWE. Geez, time needs to stop flying.

I definitely agree with point 2, which makes me kinda sad. I wouldn't say it was entirely the PotC fandom that killed my interest, but it certainly did help.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I've been on LJ since 2003, shortly after the first movie came out. Almost nine years. What a grand colossal waste of hours, isn't it? LOL!

[gobsmacked.livejournal.com]

4) To end on a plus - Will Turner is still the cat's pajamas. That is all. ^..^
I watched AWE on tv a few weeks ago and actually teared up at the ending. (By this I mean the ending before the credits)
i really don't think Orlando got enough credit for his transformation of Will from COTBP to AWE

[yoiebear.livejournal.com]

I totally agree that Orlando didn't get the credit he deserved (deserves?) for the development of Will as a strong character. Turner's character growth is one of my favourite things about the original trilogy.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I think it's an unconscious/subconscious thing the people who liked watching the movies sensed, as well. He grew, and Elizabeth learned about self-sacrifice too, and Jack pretty much stayed the comic relief. A story can't be all about comic relief, and I think most viewers realize they like something to chew on - a romance, a quest, whatever.

[gobsmacked.livejournal.com]

Except, apparently, reviewers. They usually hated the Will and Elizabeth characters and trashed the acting. Of course, is this perhaps because so many are male and hate anything that reminds them of "chick flicks"

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's still a sad scene to watch, especially with the music and there's a good chance W & E will be kept apart pretty much the rest of her life. Also considering they basically got caught up in other people's machinations and are paying the price for it.

[gobsmacked.livejournal.com]

Yes. I also felt very sad about the death of Governor Swann - what did he ever do to anyone? It would have been nice to see him come down to greet Will with his grandchild and Elizabeth

This is one of the flaws of AWE for me: random massacre of even minor characters for no reason

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Swann wasn't a bad man, but he did cooperate with the mass hangings - the whole "when good men do nothing" sin, I suppose, is the thing I can see. Of course, he wasn't killed for doing that. The hell is, he would likely have been killed either way by Beckett.

[gobsmacked.livejournal.com]

This. It really doesn't matter what he did or failed to do. He was likely going to be killed by Beckett anyway.

[captsparrow4evr.livejournal.com]

As you know, Ver, I've always been a Jack/Will shipper. I believe there was a special chemistry between those characters (note: I don't say the actors.) You cannot be a J/W shipper and not acknowledge that they need each other. Beyond that, I love looking at pretty men and especially pretty men together. Will will always and forever be my favorite blacksmith (though Balian from KOH runs a close second.;)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think the actors got on well, too; it was definitely a sort-of mentorship going on at that point in both their lives. I don't think the same thing would happen now, as OB is older with more and better acting experience, they're both fathers, and their age difference just wouldn't lend itself to "elder and student" now ... more like "colleagues." I think this change probably starting happening over the course of the first three movies anyway, and you can definitely see a difference in the J-W relationship onscreen between CotBP and AWE. It'd be interesting to see how they interact onscreen if Will is ever brought back for a cameo in a future sequel.

[gobsmacked.livejournal.com]

Or maybe back for the whole thing. Orlando has been hinting and it would be good to have him back as "Davy Jones"

[hippediva.livejournal.com]

*sniffle* Sad truthiness! And the usual rebuttals (i.e. 'don't let it bother you' and other trite assholeries) just don't make up for the concentrated psychological sickness of people who get their kicks ruining the pleasures of others.

That said, there are some of us still struggling on against the tides of time, fannish dogpiles, real life and writer's block. *G* It's tough going and often feels like a dinghy against a typhoon. But we're still here. *LOL* (It may be the definition of insanity but.....*wink*)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I can't imagine there's much dogpiling left to do in this fandom - not that the dogs aren't still there, but those willing to be piled have mostly long departed, wouldn't you say? ;-) What buttons could possibly be left to push, LOL?

[placeofinsanity.livejournal.com]

My God, it's been that long? Holy crap! I've been in fandom for almost 15 years if that's the case. DAMN.

I miss our happy little corner of POTC fandom.

I wish we could magically resurrect it. :(

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Life and fandom moves on, and that's probably good because otherwise you'd get stuck in the same thing for years on end and never find anything good and new. *G*

[joyful-molly.livejournal.com]

Time flies... five years!?!

While I kept mostly out of it (not being in communities seemed to help, so did writing pairings they didn't care about), I can't remember ever having been so angry on behalf of other fans before. PotC is still my main fandom, and I'm still writing, but I doubt that would have been the case if I'd written a more popular pairing.

As for feminism, my definition is the one I shaped based on my own experiences and challenges, not an academic construct created by people who neither know my life, my country nor my culture. I also still don't believe that writing fanfic in a specific manner will do much for the progress of equal rights for women.

Will Turner: but absolutely!

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Dear, if fandom could cure sexism, we wouldn't have more people than ever trying to limit female rights in my country (which arguably has one of the biggest, if not the biggest, single national presence/control over Internet content and suchlike) and pearl-clutchers wanting to control what goes into and comes out of vaginas, who refuse to allow the word to be spoken in official capacity.

[(Anonymous)]

Creeping in to agree with points 1, 2, 3 and 4. Unfortunately, in addition to having lost interest in Depp, I also don't give a rat's behind for Knightley.

Despite that, I would see POTC 5 in a heartbeat if Will Turner was there, COFTD forever or not.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling if there are any future installments, Will will show up in a cameo, at least. People can bleat all they want about how Depp is the star, but there's a fair number I think who miss the supporting regulars, too.

[gobsmacked.livejournal.com]

I think they need a foil for Jack amongst the male characters, and the Orlando-as-tragic-Davy-Jones figure would make a nice contrast.

It would nice if they came up with a real female pirate, too. History provides examples of several: Grace O'Malley, Anne Bonny, Mary Read, Ching Shih, Jeanne de Clisson, Rachel Wall, Jacquotte Delahaye and Ingela Gathenhielm

BTW, there was an actual Jack "Sparrow" in the 16-17th century. Real name Jack Ward; nicknamed "Birdy" or "Sparrow". However, POTC takes place in the mid-18th century, so there was a little transfer