Underage RPers/cybering

[veronica_rich]

There's a pretty englightening discussion on fandomsecrets about a macro secret involving underage people RPing/cybering with adults. Specifically, this thread (warning: slow loading, image heavy), which has its little share of wank, but is surprisingly conducive to good conversations about the rights of adults versus the needs of teenagers to explore their sexuality in a safe (i.e., NOT skin-to-skin) manner; whether an adult can be charged with a crime if it is learned the RP partner is underage; what can happen to underage people engaging in distribution of pornographic materials to other underage or even overage people online.

We didn't have the Internet back in the cave I grew up in - I'll be 37 later this year. In fact, I didn't even have Internet access until oh, about 11 years ago, and it was a 28.8 KB connection, LOL. I didn't have sex until I was 19 years old. But I read romance novels, sneaked looks into my dad's Hustler and Playboy collection, etc. stuff without a sex partner. My sister, so far as I know, was reading fanfic when she was about 14 or 15, but not getting into doing anything until she was a legal adult. (She'll have to speak for herself if she wishes, beyond that.)

My point is, what do you think of underage people cybering with overage people? Do you think it's OK so long as they don't give their real age and seem mature? Or do you think there should be some measure (such as ...?) requiring they give notice of their age first, to protect a possible conviction against an adult who isn't really a pedophile and doesn't want to have to register as a sex offender for the rest of their life?

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

"what do you think of underage people cybering with overage people?"
Absolutely, positively not okay, under any circumstances.

This is an ancient prohibition, BTW. The ancient Greeks referred to incest as between older relative and younger, eg parent and child, uncle and child, but anything between siblings was a-o.k.

In other words, young people of the same age is one thing. Highly disparate ages is another.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I probably should've phrased that last bit differently so it didn't look like I approve of overage/underage mixing. My question was more of a "gee, how do we solve this" than anything else. And frankly, I don't know any way to do so that's ironclad protection for the overage person.

Sex makes everyone stupid

[finding-neo.livejournal.com]

Anyone who is OVERAGE should be aware that it only takes 1 complaint, whether based in fact or not, from an UNDERAGE person to land that OVERAGE person in jail for anything sexual the UNDERAGE person claims the OVERAGE person committed - that can be sending them porn, that can be meeting them, that can be coercing them to do sexual things, etc etc etc.

Take this scenario for example - the underage person gets mad at the overage person, for whatever reason and decides they are going to enact revenge. All it takes is one phone call and filing a report with whatever details the underage person thinks is most incriminating. BAM, the overage person is in jail.

Young people have little sense of responsibility and don't care if they ruin someone else's life. This is happening to someone I know right now and I recently learned it happened to someone else I know. The young man who's in jail right now because of the above scenario had his computer confiscated and searched as evidence. He cannot afford an attorney, he has a public defender. Do you think he's going to be cleared of 4 counts of predatory rape, even though the date of the occurrence was 2 1/2 years ago and there's no physical rape evidence? If they find anything on his computer, he will become a sex offender.

Adults would be very wise to steer clear of all things sexual when dealing with others in cyberspace. You never know who you're chatting with. And as many kids who are getting in trouble with the law now for "sexting" naked pictures to one another they can get in a heap of trouble too, no matter what their age.

Re: Sex makes everyone stupid

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Anyone who is overage and not an actual pedophile DOES know it's illegal - but that's not so much the problem as being lied to by an underage online partner. Your example is well-taken (and as I told someone else, I hope it didn't sound like I approve of overage/underage cybering - not my point at all).

Personally, I've stayed clear of cybering, and sticking to RP only for writing (with someone I know is well of age). And am glad of it ...

[keechakatt.livejournal.com]

I'm all for having "click here if you are ove 18" option, or making you put your birthday. That seems the only way to protect yourself and even that is risky because you still don't know who is on the other end.

I would hate to see it come to needing a credit card to register, even if they don't charge it. That would seem the only way from discouraging young ones from getting involved in RPing with adults.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think a charge is necessary. Even if it's just 1 cent a month - it would notify the actual cardholder that they're registered on an RP site. You know, for those 13-year-olds who regularly cadge their parents' credit cards for such things. ;-)

[a-silver-rose.livejournal.com]

The problem with the "click if you are over 18" or any similar option is that people LIE. I do kind of like the "register with credit card" option.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with finding_neo. I think it that anyone with a brain would have to insist that anyone playing be the legal age. And frankly, so what if someone has to wait until they are eighteen to explore their sexuality? It's not like they can't go into a bookstore and buy plenty of NON-FICTION to satisfy any damn questions they may have. The difference here is this is sexual play. Period. It's having sexual games with minors. I don't care if it's just words. If it's just "acting." I would imagine that practically every predator who tries to hook kids with bullshit plays a "role." And the kids who answer are also playing a role. Sure, I'm 18. I just look young. Because it's a game. And I think that the line between role playing games and predator games is mighty thin.

If you know they are minors and you continue playing, then I think you won't have a leg to stand on if you're caught for being a sexual predator. If you're underage, please be responsible and understand that you are playing with someone's ENTIRE FUTURE. The fact they "sounded" older or "looked" older is not a defense.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I'm all for staying away from the underage kiddums - I hope nothing I said implied otherwise for my opinion. (On a side note, I am SO SO glad I didn't have the Internet as a teenager.) The biggest problem I have is with the kiddies who say they're of age - and then the adult on the other end of the pipe getting a horrible surprise from the parents or attorney FOR A CRIME THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE COMMITTING.

I don't cyber. The closest I've gotten is writing NC-17 fanfic with a friend, but both of us have always been overage, and we almost always throw in a considerable amount of plot and characterization too.

Anyway - as for your point of exploration, kids don't even have to stick to nonfiction. Hell, you can get some good written porn at your local Walmart! Just buy the right kind of romance novel. (That's how I got a lot of my jollies when I was a young teenager - especially pirate romances, mmmm.)

[destrokker.livejournal.com]

I feel like the minority here, but I really don’t see a huge problem. Maybe it’s because I grew up on the internet to an incredible degree and very little fazes me about the "dangers" of it. I had unmonitored access to a computer when I was 10, and I pretty much did every little thing out there, and jokes aside, I feel like I turned out normal.

I guess I don’t feel like it’s necessarily a bad thing if the RPing isn’t directly linked to age in the first place, you know? Whereas when overage men and women specifically SEARCH for underage kids to talk to online in an explicit matter, opposed to an RPing situation where, in a lot of cases, you’re representing different people and age becomes almost irrelevant. If, however, a specific party is intentionally trying to find someone underage/overage and still engage in some weird RPing scenario, then maybe it is call for concern, but otherwise, I don’t find anything harmful about the situation.

That probably made no sense, but it’s late and I’m having hard time trying to conjure up what I mean. x3 Long story short: there is a limit, but before reaching that limit, I don’t see it as a bad thing. God knows I did it.

ETA: Oh, and btw, I am obviously talking about my opinion on stating age and so forth. The whole legality of the issue is way too complex, and I prefer not to touch upon it, because it doesn't seem to get the world anywhere, lol.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm really not concerned with the welfare of the child in this case - in this one case, I'm looking more at what could happen to the adult. It doesn't matter so much that you turned out OK and don't feel scarred by the experience - had your parents or an authority found out you were doing such a thing with an overage person, you're not the one whose reputation and life could've been legally and socially ruined over it. You know?

[destrokker.livejournal.com]

Well, like I said, I don’t really want to get into the legality of the issue, because there’s no end-all answer. But, honestly, it’s a lose/lose situation for the overage person and is probably never going to be solved. They’re screwed in most outcomes since, to a majority of the population, no one perceives the overage party to ever be innocent, which they most certainly can be in some situations. But, is it really the underage party’s fault? There are plenty of instances when an underage person knows they can get the overage party in trouble, but I think what matters is whether they’re using that knowledge maliciously. Regardless, like you said, the authorities/parents can take matters into their own hands, but that’s how things are when the law is black and white, which, to me, is unfortunate.

[joyful-molly.livejournal.com]

To sum it up: "What do I care, as long as there are no consequences for me."

I pity Generation Entitlement if their only means to explore their sexuality are x-rated RPGs... And I pity everybody who will get into trouble because of a bunch of egoists. Not much you can do about it, though - with exception of staying away from cybering. Never saw the appeal, to be honest.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I remember being a teenager. I got by without the Internet and sexual intercourse just fine. I think in this generation there are a lot of parents who don't realize what their kids can get up to online, so maybe don't know what to do about it or to prevent it. Hopefully parents 10 years and so down the road will know exactly what can happen, and will keep a better eye on their younguns.

[hippediva.livejournal.com]

My point is, what do you think of underage people cybering with overage people?

Boring Beyond Belief and Not Okay Ever.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I think we may be too old to properly appreciate cybering. *G*

As for the second part, CONCURRED.

[a-silver-rose.livejournal.com]

fwiw, whether it's cyber or real life, sexual interraction should not involve minors, whether they admit their true age or not. And if you are cybering with someone and find out the'ye underage, stop any and all contact. I've done my share of heavy flirting when I was south of legal voting age (by phone rather than internet, and certainly not in real life), so I'm not going to say it's not going to happen, but nowadays, there's too many legal and moral quagmires involved. Best to give any such situation a *wide* berth.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

That's what I think, too. Heavy flirting is one thing - you expect that from someone under 18, and I don't think there's anything wrong with indulging it to a point. (Not that I have, but then again, I can't think of much more boring than most men under the age of 35, LOL.) I jut feel sort of sorry for people who think they're dealing with another adult and find out they're not - IF they ever find out, that is.

[roguedemon.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I think your solution --staying away from it -- is the only one that will keep you safe and it the healthiest option anyway.

If you need to flirt with someone, go out and meet someone, I say. That way, you can always ask for ID .

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I don't think flirting's so much the problem (or maybe I just have an old-fashioned idea of "flirting" which doesn't even go as far as simulated kissing ... much else what else is involved in cybering as I understand it). And as I said elsewhere, I don't think there's harm in lightly indulging someone close to legal age to give them some flattery - so long as it's done in a manner that does not show any ill or overtly sexual will on the part of the adult.

But the real problem is this new age of Internet Intimacy as I like to call it - you know, where you think you know somebody and it turns out you really don't. (Hell, I had this happen to me recently with online people I thought were RL friends - not involving cybering or anything - whom I thought I knew. I did not, as it turned out. I can only imagine how much worse it would've been if you threw in sex AND illegalities of age.)

[pearlseed.livejournal.com]

"underage people cybering with overage people? Do you think it's OK so long as they don't give their real age and seem mature? Or do you think there should be some measure (such as ...?) requiring they give notice of their age first, to protect a possible conviction against an adult who isn't really a pedophile and doesn't want to have to register as a sex offender for the rest of their life?"

Here's the ultimate no-brainer--Don't do this really stupid thing. Underage--I'm picking 18 years of age--people don't have all their brains yet--I teach high school and god love 'em--if they had all their brains, there wouldn't be teen preggers, devastating car wrecks, drug/gang deaths, a lot of the really awful things resulting from decisions made by children and don't let those large bodies fool you--they are children.
Age and treachery, the saying goes, overcomes youth and skill. Stands to reason we as a world community need to protect children, mine, yours, all ours! Me personally, everyway, believe that it's just bad taste to send out pictures of your goods to anyone--becos one can doesn't mean one ought. And yes, the youngers are way smarter about getting around the protections--we have to be grown-up becos we are the big people! okay--off my soapbox--worth exactly what you paid for it--thanks.