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veronica_richI'm relatively certain I'm a Bad Feminist for thinking this, but it can't be helped. In a conversation yesterday with an online friend, we were talking about the woman who gave birth to the octuplets. Apparently she had six children already when she was getting the fertility treatments to get pregnant with these eight. Here are my questions:
1. We're all so conservation-minded and worried about global warming and climate change - but nobody wants to address that old bugaboo, the 800-pound gorilla squat in the middle of the discussion, of population control.
2. Was her insurance company paying for the fertility treatments?
3. At what point does a doctor (or somebody in the medical process) strenuously voice a limit on the number of fetuses the human body can support in one pregnancy?
Detail: 1. I do not propose telling women when they can and cannot get pregnant. That's not what I mean by population control. "Control" comes in educating boys and girls, men and women, as widely as possible about what the average human consumes in a lifetime in the way of energy and food, and of the cost in correctly raising a child to be ready for the world (I mean basic education, nutritious food and shelter, medical care, socialization opportunities; I don't mean a particular parenting philosophy). "Control" comes in NOT romanticizing the birthing and child-rearing process to unrealistic proportions and making girls and women feel inadequate or shamed if they are not inclined to give birth or raise children (which are two different things, as we know).
However, if somebody wants 14 children, so long as they can take care of them and I'm not tapped to help pay for anything beyond school taxes (which I'm willing to do), I'm not going to tell her she can't. That's not particularly my business. It doesn't mean I can't have a negative opinion about it, though.
2. I sure as hell hope not. There are people who already exist who are dying slowly from lack of preventive medical care or treatments when they get a disease, because they have insurance that won't cover those conditions. I have no problem for insurance that covers birth control or abortions or pre- and postnatal care. (I'm iffy on fertility treatments even for childless women, but so far I haven't strenuously argued against it. I feel sort of weird telling a woman she can't have a kid if there's some way she can and she wants it. However, not that weird, as we'll see in point #3.)
3. I'm all for choice to have, as well as to prevent or voluntarily terminate before the third trimester. But if you're going to go to the trouble of pregnancy and giving birth, you presumably want a healthy baby - or more, if it's a multiple birth - is that a safe assumption? What happens naturally in a woman's uterus is supposedly not more than she can naturally handle - if she gets pregnant with quadruplets or quintuplets, or even octuplets, with no help other than from her sperm donor, who am I to second-guess that? BUT - and I confess I do not know what the natural limit is on multiple fetuses without outside help - I think letting a patient gestate eight fetuses from in vitro is irresponsible, both on the doctor's and the patient's parts. How healthy do you think a human fetus is, born several weeks premature and weighing less than two pounds? Multiply that by several. ONE fetus drains vitamins and minerals out of even the most nutritiously-fed mother - not only will eight do more damage, they have to steal from each other as well.
There's a good chance the fertility doc didn't implant eight eggs, but only 3-4 in the hopes that at least one would grow to viability. What happens when it becomes clear some or all have split into twins or triplets? Shouldn't there be some understanding/clause on such treatment that the body can handle only so many fetuses, safely (and for their health), and abort the extras? Many women don't like abortion because they say it interferes with God's plan - but surely none of those would be getting fertility treatments, since their barrenness would suggest their God has already made that ruling.
Aren't opinions wonderful things?
1. We're all so conservation-minded and worried about global warming and climate change - but nobody wants to address that old bugaboo, the 800-pound gorilla squat in the middle of the discussion, of population control.
2. Was her insurance company paying for the fertility treatments?
3. At what point does a doctor (or somebody in the medical process) strenuously voice a limit on the number of fetuses the human body can support in one pregnancy?
Detail: 1. I do not propose telling women when they can and cannot get pregnant. That's not what I mean by population control. "Control" comes in educating boys and girls, men and women, as widely as possible about what the average human consumes in a lifetime in the way of energy and food, and of the cost in correctly raising a child to be ready for the world (I mean basic education, nutritious food and shelter, medical care, socialization opportunities; I don't mean a particular parenting philosophy). "Control" comes in NOT romanticizing the birthing and child-rearing process to unrealistic proportions and making girls and women feel inadequate or shamed if they are not inclined to give birth or raise children (which are two different things, as we know).
However, if somebody wants 14 children, so long as they can take care of them and I'm not tapped to help pay for anything beyond school taxes (which I'm willing to do), I'm not going to tell her she can't. That's not particularly my business. It doesn't mean I can't have a negative opinion about it, though.
2. I sure as hell hope not. There are people who already exist who are dying slowly from lack of preventive medical care or treatments when they get a disease, because they have insurance that won't cover those conditions. I have no problem for insurance that covers birth control or abortions or pre- and postnatal care. (I'm iffy on fertility treatments even for childless women, but so far I haven't strenuously argued against it. I feel sort of weird telling a woman she can't have a kid if there's some way she can and she wants it. However, not that weird, as we'll see in point #3.)
3. I'm all for choice to have, as well as to prevent or voluntarily terminate before the third trimester. But if you're going to go to the trouble of pregnancy and giving birth, you presumably want a healthy baby - or more, if it's a multiple birth - is that a safe assumption? What happens naturally in a woman's uterus is supposedly not more than she can naturally handle - if she gets pregnant with quadruplets or quintuplets, or even octuplets, with no help other than from her sperm donor, who am I to second-guess that? BUT - and I confess I do not know what the natural limit is on multiple fetuses without outside help - I think letting a patient gestate eight fetuses from in vitro is irresponsible, both on the doctor's and the patient's parts. How healthy do you think a human fetus is, born several weeks premature and weighing less than two pounds? Multiply that by several. ONE fetus drains vitamins and minerals out of even the most nutritiously-fed mother - not only will eight do more damage, they have to steal from each other as well.
There's a good chance the fertility doc didn't implant eight eggs, but only 3-4 in the hopes that at least one would grow to viability. What happens when it becomes clear some or all have split into twins or triplets? Shouldn't there be some understanding/clause on such treatment that the body can handle only so many fetuses, safely (and for their health), and abort the extras? Many women don't like abortion because they say it interferes with God's plan - but surely none of those would be getting fertility treatments, since their barrenness would suggest their God has already made that ruling.
Aren't opinions wonderful things?
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Date: 2009-01-31 11:20 pm (UTC)Now 15 years later one daughter is diabetic(most likely a genetic thing) and the other daughter has Aspergers Syndrome. Both girls had ADD. Does this have anything to do with them being premies?? I'll never know for sure, but I can bet those 8 kids are going to have medical issues in the future.
My OB told me that a woman's body wasn't made for having a litter. There has to be a point where any doctor would tell a woman who already has 6 children, that invitro is not a good idea, and refuse to do it. I would be surprised if her insurance company paid for it, it seems lately more and more insurance companies don't pay for invitro for anyone.
I think that someone needs to step in and evaluate this woman. She has no husband, no income of her own(I read that she was a student, but they didn't mention if she had a job) and is living with her mother. If she's hoping for an outpouring of support, free loot, a reality deal and cash, I think she's in for a real shock.
Sorry I got a bit ramble-ish.
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Date: 2009-02-04 08:47 pm (UTC)Actually, that's good to hear; my cynical brain figured it was still the other way around. It's one thing to pay for pre- and postnatal care, I don't have a problem with that. I don't even mind paying for birth control and abortion procedures. I suppose I have a problem with paying for fertility treatments because it's like most plastic surgery - it's not something you need to preserve or ensure your health.