POTC slashy goodness

[veronica_rich]

In another discussion, elibad makes a point about all the little J/W interactions in AWE. One she notes specifically: The one I just caught viewing the DVD is when they are in the locker and Will says that Jack thinks they're hallucinations, Jack gets in "William's" grill asking him about his "distressing damsel" then suggesting if he wasn't there for her then he wouldn't be there at all. Jealous Diva Jack, I think he's my new favorite.

But ... she's so RIGHT. I didn't even think of that scene, though I have noticed Jack taking potshots at Elizabeth in front of Will - "strumpet" "dotty belle" "charming murderess" and the like. There are a few times he snipes disdainfully like this. Yet to Elizabeth he's usually pleasant, or at least doesn't really test her the way he does Will. (His attitude with her sort of reminds me of Veruca and Violet from "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" - "Let's be friends" "Best friends." Two girls after the same prize, coolly getting along while keeping one eye on each other at all times.) Jack is SO Mary Stuart Masterson in "Some Kind of Wonderful," LOLOL ...

Consider, too, in AWE when Elizabeth tries to jump ship to save her father on the Other Side and Tia Dalma warns she can't leave - Jack stands stock still and makes no move to stop her along with everyone else. When Elizabeth is about to be stabbed by Davy Jones toward the end - where is Jack and the heart, or at least some vocal protest? It's not until Will is threatened that Jack voices a threat; and when Will's stabbed, that's the first look of true horror we get from him since picking up the Black Spot in DMC, or breaking his jar of dirt and finding no heart. (Afterward, on the Pearl, when he gives the orders to stand and fight, it's also the angriest I think we've seen him in all three movies - he wasn't even that pissed off when he shot Barbossa.)

I also think it means something that we don't get a goodbye or final "scene" between Jack and Will in AWE, but we get a clear goodbye between Jack and Elizabeth ....

Comments

[tyleet27.livejournal.com]

You know, that's probably the biggest change in the J/W dynamic I've seen. After Cotbp, I feel like there was an assumption that either Will would go looking for the pirate in his blood and end up on the Pearl's crew, and that's how the J/W worked, with Will seeking Jack out. That's how Cotbp went, and even DMC, for the most part--Will goes looking for Jack, Jack has the position of power in basically all of their interactions. But at the end of AWE, that's switched--Will has the position of power, and after the locker, he's never actually looking for Jack. He's looking for Elizabeth, or Bill, or...other people. And as the (married) Cotfd, it's way more likely that Jack would have to pursue him than the other way around.

So...no more innocent blacksmith trying to win the pirate's heart, I guess. Instead we've got jilted pirate trying to win Death's heart...even though it's in another pirate's posession. I know which one I'm more interested in. ; )

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I have always been fascinated by the idea of Jack as the more vulnerable of the two, needing to win Will over rather than the other way around. Not to say there aren't great stories where it's the other way around, but this flips the usual dynamic people wrote and it was great. (And I think this may help me with the continuation of my ongoing series, too ...)

[golden-helikaon.livejournal.com]

It never actually occurred to me that Jack could be throwing those insults around about Elizabeth because he's jealous of her. Haha, AWE is even more slashy now.

I think it really did show how much Jack cares about Will after Will was stabbed and the Dutchman went down; he's never reacted quite like that about anything else.

I kind of figure if they were in primary school, Jack would be punching Will and pulling his hair or something :P

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I kind of figure if they were in primary school, Jack would be punching Will and pulling his hair or something

See, that's the thing. Jack's just a wee bit juvenile anyway, so one would figure if he really did like Elizabeth, he'd pay her more attention or give her more grief, or do SOMETHING other than accommodate her most of the time and tell her what she wants to hear just to get her out of his way. ;-)

[elessil.livejournal.com]

There you go, ruining my innocent fun over Jack throwing out condescending comments about Liz and turn it into Turrow.

*whistles innocently and hides*

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Sea turtles, mate. *shrugs*

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Dahrling, he's just FABULOUS ...

[p0wdermonkey.livejournal.com]

That's a good point about the distressing damsel moment.

I'm happy to believe in J/W I just don't write it because it doesn't work with my backstory. But who knows what the future may hold?

Seriously, I think it's pretty clear Jack can be paired with anyone - goats included. But my theory is that, to make it credible, there has to be at least one person he's NOT shagging. So, you see, Will has a very important role in my fic ;)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

But my theory is that, to make it credible, there has to be at least one person he's NOT shagging.

Which is what Elizabeth's for. And to pout. And to sell Chanel.

[klear0bsession.livejournal.com]

Ah wonderful observations. Everything did change around. With the distressing damsel comment the dynamic completely flips. In a round about way that scene really shows that Will has grown up since he has moved beyond "I must save Elizabeth" and has started forming his own agenda. Jack, regardless of his mental state at the time realizes this immediately and the whole game changes.

There is also the scene later where Jack is trapped in the brig of the Flying Dutchman and is saying to himself "Think like the whelp!" Another complete turn around. Which seems to have far more layers than first observation would suggest. For instance this is also happening while there are a few extra Jack's floating around. And it also points towards the fact that Jack must have had a younger Will on his mind. The man he first met with the cold sense of reason and the stick up his arse. A Will that no longer exsists.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Very good points all. I love the parallels between them throughout AWE, from thinking like each other, to acting like each other, even to each of them "thwanking" something stuck on/in a globe in successive scenes.

[captsparrow4evr.livejournal.com]

To tell the truth, that scene where Will is stabbed and Jack gets the most horrified look on his face, is what convinced me that Turrow _is_ the OTP for Ted and Terry, even if it's technically not canon. I suspect, it's also the OTP for Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom, too. They've both joked about it in interviews. Humor always reveals at least a touch of truth. In some sneaking way, Jack is what Will wants and wants to be. And in some equally sneaking way, Will is what Jack wants and wants to be. It goes all the way back to that last action sequence in CotBP (which still makes me squee when I watch it.) They are two halves of one whole and work best when they are together.

Now if we can just convince Disney that it's okay for Jack and Will to sail off together into the sunset . . . ;)

[klear0bsession.livejournal.com]

*squee*

I just loved your comment and wanted to say so. I could see the OTP from beginning to end in the series, and this is most definitely it. At the very least, it is how Johnny and Orlando played it, and to me that counts more than anything else :)

[danglingdingle.livejournal.com]

Somehow, to me at least, the fact that Davy Jones stabs _Will_ , is proof enough that Turrow is exactly what is the OTP for both Ted and Terry AND Johnny and Orlando...and practically for everybody involved.
Why would Davy stab Will if that wasn't the case? Why would he even assume that Jack would give a fuck for him? Why not stab Elisabeth, that would be more even bet in that situation...Unless he knows what we know, you know...Like, from the moment when Jack wanted Will back from the Dutchman in the first place in DMC and such.

Maybe I'm just wearing a set of Turrow-goggles over my prescription, but through these glasses, it's written all over.

Should we get an online petition to send to Disney? :P

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

You know, that's a point I never thought of, to be honest ... Hmm ...

/strokes chin thoughtfully

[danglingdingle.livejournal.com]

Oh, I could babble about this very subject untill next week, and still not be done with it. I have tons of perceptions on this very thing...healthy? Probably not, but I work constant night-shift, so I guess that explains something.

All in all, again, this is just me, (but I'm a firm believer it's _teh ultimate truthness_) from the opening sequence of DMC the whole purpose is to find a way to work around Elizabeth.
And now we, presumably, and that's the way everyone sees it, have two immortal pirates hanging around. What could possibly have been the point? Hmm...

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Oh well, this is a good place to babble about that, at least. *G*

[danglingdingle.livejournal.com]

Indeed. :D

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

In some sneaking way, Jack is what Will wants and wants to be. And in some equally sneaking way, Will is what Jack wants and wants to be.

Most perfect explanation of Turrow EVER.

[captsparrow4evr.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't go that far but I do like it.:)

[justawench.livejournal.com]

That's a good point - I never gave that bit much thought. I had just taken it as, "I only see you if you need something, so if you're saving Elizabeth, why are you here?"

It is strangely telling that he seems to try to spark an argument between them, but he doesn't seem to hold anything against Elizabeth when they're alone.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

For some reason, I always thought Jack was trying much harder to provoke Will than Elizabeth. Maybe he understood it wouldn't result in his death? :-P

[elibad.livejournal.com]

To me, there has always been a certain gleefulness in Jack's dealings with Will that are absent with any and every one else. It was one of the first things I noticed and something that drove my interest in the movies and later the fandom (and I must note that during my earliest forays in PotC I was not even aware of slash. My how times change).

I originally pictured Jack as seeing Will as the ultimate sidekick. he's smart, loyal, fearless but he would question Jack enough to help rein him in. And I've always imagined Jack trying to come up with ridiculous ideas and plans just to see if he could talk Will into them. Although 'how' he talks him into things has changed significantly since those early days. *G*

The other side of this was always Elizabeth as a rival, not necessarily a romantic one, but one that had what he wanted, Will's loyalty, his time, his presence. Just one more reason why DMC was so jarring.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

You should see the comment just above you on this page, about how if Disney wanted to recognize J/E, they would've had Davy kill her, NOT Will. See what you think. (And I agree about the gleefulness. J/W sex would be fun, whereas J/E sex would involve a lot of pouting and striking poses and flowy language about bird imagery.)