(no subject)

[veronica_rich]

Yes, more DMC discussion. But instead of bitching and moaning this time, I actually come bearing grand insight for writers on my f-list.


Let's start with a simple link - Jack Sparrow's supposed official, possible-canon history:

http://community.livejournal.com/potc_discussion/7277.html

(You can post comments to that list all you like, obviously, but I'd really love to see some discussion in this journal, as well.)

Some follow-up discussion at: http://xylodemon.livejournal.com/356621.html on the same topic, speculation, etc.

In short for you who are link-a-phobic: Someone found a spot on the official DMC site that references a possible backstory for Jack. He worked for Beckett and the East India Trading Company, and Pearl was a ship of its fleet. Jack defied a direct order/assignment and it was of such nature that it got the Pearl sunk/abandoned and Jack branded for piracy. Fan speculation includes Jack refusing something having to do with slaves; MY taking that further says that Jack delivered some slaves - only not to where he was supposed to, to collect money. Instead, he left them in someone's humane, free care (such as Tia Dalma's). It would explain why everyone in her bayou mourned his passing, why he was allowed there (even if she spooked Jack personally). It would also explain why Beckett would take his ship and brand him for piracy - Jack basically had embezzled from the company, taken cargo that was not his and denied his employers their coinage and the customers their shipment.

Again, remember that I'm just going off what someone else said they found on the site, and then adding other people's and then my own speculation on top of that. (For some perverse reason, this all makes my fiction-writer-plotter heart very joyous. You've gotta be a writer - and several of you are - to understand it.)

Remember Norrington's line to Gibbs: "My story is exactly the same as yours, just one chapter behind"? (Paraphrased.) Now, think about what drives Will Turner - right and good, but conscience above all else. If what I typed above about Jack turns out to be true, it would prove Jack also puts conscience above all else. And can't you imagine that if Will knew this real backstory on Jack, that it might be the hairsbreadth Will would need to turn HIM completely to a life of piracy - like Jack, to thwart the EITC?

I'll just write it out: Will Turner is Jack Sparrow, one chapter behind.


Oh, PLEASE, tell me what you think.

Comments

[elvensorceress.livejournal.com]

Oooooh. Now that is interesting.
*wonders why YOU aren't writing for the movies*
;)

btw...hi :) I don't think you know me, but I've been following your discussions (and of course I adore Will/Jack) so I thought I'd finally de-lurk and introduce myself. I'm now off to contemplate your theories and hopefully respond to your posts.

♥

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Because, I didn't come up with THAT backstory. (I'm the type who generally needs a nudge and a push to carry on someone else's great idea, and not necessarily as well as THEY would do it, LOL.) Damn.

Thanks for reading, and feel free to comment wherever in here!

[yoiebear.livejournal.com]

I like it! I haven't put that much thought into it at all. (Been too busy with work).
I did catch - in the film)- little things like Jack not telling Bootstraps that Will is not a pirate and the way Will commanded a ship (which gave me a huge smile).

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

You and I are probably only two of the only 12 people excited to see Will in charge of something at sea (though I will admit I was vexed to see Jack just roll over and let him - ideally, they would've worked together, or Will would only be IN CHARGE because Jack couldn't be, being tied up elsewhere or knocked cold, instead of running away from the ship). Then again, there's probably only 12 of us who don't think Orlando is a piece of scenery, either, by the reviews I read.

[abrabacon-trask.livejournal.com]

*cough. Ahem...*

SQUEEEEEEEEE!

*feeling SO hopeful about part 3*

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Hell, I'm just feeling hopeful about fanfic! (Movie writers can do a great job, but if I have a definite idea of a character, I never expect the official scribes to match what's in my head for him.)

[gloromeien.livejournal.com]

Of course, this backstory is sort of at odds with the fact that, when they went to cannibal island, only the black and asian people were mysteriously eaten! So much for sympathy towards native cultures...

Anyhoo, sorry, topic at hand. Perfect! Just perfect! I love the way the writers keep inadvertently giving us fuel for our slashiest devices. Brilliant.

-G. ;D

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Of course, this backstory is sort of at odds with the fact that, when they went to cannibal island, only the black and asian people were mysteriously eaten!

You got all that from the bones on the cages? Are you a doctor? ;-)

I got the feeling in that sequence that Jack really didn't have much control over the natives' details of what they did (hell, if he had, they wouldn't be eating HIM) unless it was what they wanted to do (such as imprisoning Will or adding more wood for "bigger fire!"). In fact, it took two viewings to understand that he didn't go there at all on purpose knowing what the island was - he was running scared and picked the first land he could find where there was no immediate danger of naval arrest. Once they all beached the Pearl for careening, they couldn't exactly hop back in it when the natives started coming, and row out to sea.

I love the way the writers keep inadvertently giving us fuel for our slashiest devices.

Oh, YES. I can definitely use this for Turrow.

[chibikat-wtf.livejournal.com]

Oh ho. Now that's interesting. ...that's very interesting. ^_~

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I can't even begin to tell you how interesting I thought it all was. But then again, I'm a details whore - I WANT to know Jack's backstory, where he came from, what created him, what decisions influenced him. They tell me what kind of character he is and, as a writer, I have to know that in order to write him myself. (Sure, I made up my own backstory, but if canon will throw us a bone, especially of this nature, I'll take it.)

Or perhaps you were referring to my very last comment about Will? *G*

[heartofslash.livejournal.com]

But Will already did help free a boatful of slave, in The Pirate Way.

Which would make the movies one step behing me.

Heh.

*demands that Djimon Hounsou be cast as the slave rebellion leader Matthew and that my friend Dave who was the inspiration for Alphonse DeMaurier be cast as Alphonse, and demands the filming must begin asap and the author MUST be present for ALL NC-17-rated scenes*

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Shoot, I'd want to be present for ALL scenes ...

Is that where the slave-releasing came from in your story, that you had that idea about the Jack backstory? That's pretty cool if you deduced that THAT far ahead of the movie writers. I don't know why it didn't occur to me at some point, except that I freely admit I usually need a good kick in the ass for ideas to write. *G*

[philosophercat.livejournal.com]

*clap* That was neat. I went from 'ugh... don't care for that' to 'fantastic!' That would be an interesting trajectory for young William.

This would make the discussions I have read elsewhere about POTC being racist very interesting as well.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I've read those discussions, too. I can't decide if the movie should properly address such historical biases as a dramatic work, or ignore them because it's a "mindless" action movie.

[vejiicakes.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow! That's... really really neato! It's so spiffy it's making me not talk so good no more....

What I wanna know is how Jack!daddy-Keith Richards factors into all of this. Besides wanting to know what Jack's "mark" on Bennett was. (I've been creeped out by Bennett's actor ever since his Mr.Collins in Pride and Prejudice, but I could smell the slash coming off that little implication in waves..)

I'm not sure about this Jack-being-sympathetic-to-native-cultures thing, but it does seem likely that for where he's (probably) been and all he's (probably) seen, Jack's not about to be at all Imperialist in his outlook on the various indigenous peoples of different lands. (We don't even rightly know what his ethnic heritage is in POTC canon.) But whatever his beliefs, I think Jack's nothing if not the sort of person who considers all circumstances on their individual terms--if the backstory above is to be believed, there were enslaved people right there and it was directly in his power to do something, and I can easily see the thought of taking them to where they were supposed to go not sitting well with Jack. So. Wow. He's cool.

I will say, though: Will Turner may well follow in Jack Sparrow's footsteps, but he'd better not be Jack Sparrow (one chapter behind or not), or else where would the fun be? T_T

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I think there's a difference between considering oneself "one" with a native culture and not wanting to sell them into bondage or otherwise revoke their freedom. I mean, Jack's highest priority IS being free, right? It makes sense that would translate over to his larger beliefs.

Yes, I'd really like to know where Pearl comes from. Is she Jack's ship? He was a fairly young guy when he raised her, let alone when he might've *lost* her before that. If it's HIS ship (and not the EITC's; maybe he was a private contractor?), he's too young to have bought it without family money, I'd think. Was it Dad's? If so, who IS Grant Sparrow? Is he legit, or a pirate, too?

[philosophercat.livejournal.com]

I've been letting this sink in, and I really LOVE the idea that Jack was once 'a respectable man who obeyed the law' but moreso that he was a normal guy. A normal person who is put through a testing ground when he is asked to do something he cannot abide. Unlike Swann, he won't compromise his beliefs (in this scenario).

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

That was sort of my attraction to the whole notion, too. Someone who's been raised with no morals, never had any, isn't nearly as interesting as someone who's had to make the conscious decision to chuck them - and social training - aside for a greater good.

[elibad.livejournal.com]

This is very interesting. for some unfathomable reason I have always pictured Jack as starting out in the Royal Navy, obviously commissioned, but never reaching much higher than midshipman or Lieutenant. He fell in love with the sea, but being a bit of an 'anarchist' he struggled within the restricting confines of organized military, and got out (most likely commandeering a ship) and the rest is history (or mythology, as it were). I actually, at one point, worked out a whole convoluted history for him, which included him finding all the details of Cortez's treasure while with the RN, resulting in him leaving to find it.

As for Will, he is a very black and white kind of guy, but I think he goes by his own moral barometre, that is, what he believes to be right. Will comes across as very self-reliant, and while he may follow conventions and rules, he will ignore them if they conflict with his own highly developed conscience. We saw this in COTBP. Early on, Pirates were bad, coloured, no doubt, by his own experience of being the only survivor of a pirate attack, during which he likely saw people he knew, and liked, killed. but in the end, he ignored the law to rescue Jack because his conscience dictated it. Even his relationship with Elizabeth can be seen in this light, society says he can't have her, but he once again ignores this, more social than moral, but there you have it.

As for turning to Piracy, it was ol' Papa Swan that pointed out that there was only one pardon. Will will undoubtedly need to resort to piracy further if he wants to clear his, and Elizabeth's, names, which really is a catch 22, even if he clears his name, many will still consider him a pirate.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I agree Will's more of an absolute sort of man than Jack - and probably stricter with his own conscience than Jack is (I say "probably" because let's not romanticize Will's nobility TOO much - this is the same boy who knocked Jack out with an oar and left him behind, albeit hidden, in a cave with his mortal enemies). But if Jack was indeed branded for piracy for helping some slaves escape, it would show great conscience as well.

I doubt EITC will be pushed out of Port Royal, so at the end, Will and Elizabeth and Papa (if he survives) won't simply be able to go back to their normal lives, I'm afraid. You're most likely correct about any or all having to be lumped in with "pirates."

[moonbeamdancer.livejournal.com]

OT: Friending you, just too funny and wonderful for words. :)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Excellent. (I do funny on occasion. *G*)

[theguiltyone.livejournal.com]

...oh that's just beautiful.

*hides a sniff*

Beautiful. It really is.

[jemixe.livejournal.com]

I kind of think Will is an interesting mix of both Jack and Norrington. He has the tight and rigid morals Norrington, as an officer in Her Majesty's Navy must exhibit, yet isn't necessarily above twisting and pushing those boundaries to do what he feels is right. Of course, I say this before Norrington traded his honor for a heart. At this point, Will has the potential to go either way: a sort of Jack Sparrow-esque or a mini-Norrington, without becoming solely pirate or navy-man. Are they all really that different? Jack does everything for his ship, Will for Elizabeth, and Norrington in the name of duty. It's like they're all different faces of a funky three-sided coin; however, with enough differences to make it really interesting.


Jack, I feel, is actually pretty simple, at least in his wants. He wants his ship, the sea, an able crew, and some rum. It's his obtaining and/or keeping of those simple things in life, that makes Jack complicated. And part of Jacks appeal is that he's enigmatic enough to keep people guessing what exactally is going on in his head. I have visions of a thought bubble hovering over his head with a picture of mermaids while he's verbally sparring with Will. He's alternately under and over estimated.


And I've just re-read this and found it doesn't make much sense, but short of overhauling it all and making it even more convuluted than it already is, it at least gets the point across.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I have visions of a thought bubble hovering over his head with a picture of mermaids while he's verbally sparring with Will.

I would add "and mermen" to that, too. He and I have that in common ...

[scifiroots.livejournal.com]

I love your posts. Can't believe how many comments I responded to =p Still, wanted to directly reply to the original post, too!

Instead, he left them in someone's humane, free care (such as Tia Dalma's). It would explain why everyone in her bayou mourned his passing, why he was allowed there (even if she spooked Jack personally).
I flipping LOVE this theory. And I'd already been working myself on figuring out how the folks in the bayou fit into the grieving. I figured they had been helped in some way by Jack. I couldn't quite see them as "normal" friends... and certainly not former crewmen.

Actually adding onto your theory--what about Tia Dalma having been a part of the slave shipment? Perhaps there was even an early attraction to her that helped his decision is following his conscience as opposed to his require task.

Oh you make me want to write so many things! Ack! I'm totally getting buried under the hundreds of plot bunnies breeding for PotC and the Dead Zone. X_X And I still need to finish "Ocean Soul"! =p

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

At first I was checking out some of the much younger, lighter-skinned people in the grieving scene wondering *Are any of them maybe Jack's and Tia's child?*, but this makes more sense to me - the slave thing.

Tia *might* have been a former slave, but she doesn't particularly strike me as such. I can't say why; I just don't *feel* it. I get the feeling she's always been free, or at least has always managed to hide well enough to remain that way. I like to think Jack met Tia through some way and remembered her when he decided to defy EITC and was looking for a way to stash his "cargo" instead of watching it be hauled off by a less scrupulous captain.

Write! Write my child!