oh, honey

[veronica_rich]

Reading comments from Elizabeth (POTC) fans on public forums complaining that it seems like the character is being slighted by reviewers of the new movie, in favor of the Penelope Cruz character, Angelica. (Even Geoffrey Rush made some comment about Jack Sparrow finally having a female match in this movie or some such; I don't remember his exact quote.)


Take a page from the Will fans, who've gotten used to bashing of our favorite character by reviewers and other fans for eight years: Get over it and enjoy what you like. It's not personal! It's just their preference! Why should you care? :-)

Comments

[poetic-self.livejournal.com]

True, oh Wise One *G*

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Exactly. It's hard to ignore such remarks, but you get used to it after a while and you can shrug it off for the most part. (I imagine the Rory fans on Who have much the same burden to bear, from what I see of that fandom as an outsider and with a couple of friends in it ....)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Hopefully there's a Who fan around who'll answer that. I just know what I glimpse from the sidelines (my good old stressbuster, fandomsecrets, LOL). The "why" escapes me since I'm not an avid Who watcher.

[nobleplatypus]

As a fellow Wholigan, I have no idea. I think Rory's awesome (and I'm still kind of waiting for Amy to do something to, y'know, deserve him). Then again, I avoid fandom at large, and I think most of my friends are like-minded regarding Rory's awesomeness. If people are bashing him, I'm not seeing it.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

(FandomSecrets is the place to learn about everything you don't know in fandoms you know little about. I'd say that unfortunately, it's also filled with the nuts of any fandom, but I sort of think all that went down in POTC fandom the last 5 years may negate that limited view. *G*)

[captsparrow4evr.livejournal.com]

According to everybody, the W/E arc ended with AWE. What is the point of bringing up Liz at all? I'm just happy to see JD acting with somebody who's more age appropriate. I'll miss Will but I'm happy to see the back end of Liz.;)

BTW, love, nice hat!;)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

(I have a hat? You mean my little name fella? LOL)

I'm glad to see the necessary end of the "my way or the highway" attitude of the more insane Elizabeth fans. That got old about two days after they started it in 2006. (Now let's see what Depp does again onscreen with Orlando's old girlfriend. *G*)

[keechakatt.livejournal.com]

The reviews can say what they like. It's an opinion. I was fortunate to see the movie one week early.

The pairing of Jack and Angelica are awesome. No spoilers, but Philip is not a replacement for Will Turner. Not by a long shot.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

One hopes not. I never thought of Angelica as a replacement for Elizabeth (mostly because they don't fulfill the same role), but I did wonder if the "young couple" might be pushed as a new W/E.

I haven't read any reviews of this movie yet - professional ones, I mean, as I referenced in my post. Maybe I'll do that tonight, see what's up.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Awww, I've heard W & E did play a bigger role with Jack in the original storyline than the newcomers, so it's good to read. (Although - "it is a surprise"? Maybe to THEM. Ask someone who watches a movie more than once to write a review; they're missed. *G*)

[keechakatt.livejournal.com]

I would agree with this entirely. There are a few other observations, but if I say it will be a spoiler.

[laurenthemself]

I'm not even seeing it because Will and Elizabeth aren't in it, because if there's no Orli and no badass mid-sword-fight-wedding and no Keira's bosom, then I ain't interested.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

THAT WEDDING WAS THE BEST EVER ONSCREEN OR IN REAL LIFE.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I might see this movie purely on the basis of the music alone. See my LJ. Seriously, this album is a total killer.

Regarding the sparrabeth contingent, they didn't strike me as a particularly sensitive group of fangirls. That their plight might be similar to those of us who like to see Orlando Bloom on the screen--given how profoundly they identify with Keira Knightley--is, I imagine, beyond them. So be it.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

If you mean "sensitive" as in "aware of others' feelings," you're right. However, if you mean "sensitive" as in "The Princess and the Pea," I'd have to disagree. ;-)

(Did you get your email?)

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Of course as sensitive as being, wow, we're both in the same shoes. The reviews I'm reading seem to be universal. Lots of fights and action, no heart. That's what is so sad about this franchise and the killing of what was a truly fascinating concept, which is why the Jack Sparrow of DMC was so despicable in contrast to the Jack Sparrow of CoBP. It was Jack's devotion to the Black Pearl, his TRUE love, that was at the heart of that movie. It wasn't that he wanted her because he could pillage effectively in her (which is what these movies have disintegrated into), it was about her as an embodiment of his personal freedom. That horizon. None of the subsequent movies have even come close to recognizing the "heart" of Jack Sparrow. That sense of desperation that he isn't whole without his ship. I suppose the producers feel that CoBP was nothing but a caper movie and ST will also be a caper movie. Same thing. I don't think it's the same thing, but then I haven't seen it, but the reviews aren't encouraging.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

OK, so I was finally curious enough to read reviews. I'm surprised to see the Tomato-meter so low on it! Everything I've heard in preview fandom hails it almost as the second coming of the franchise. (A couple of reviews actually expressed regret that Will and Elizabeth weren't still there. They must've been fairly desperate to stop bashing Bloom long enough to give him a smidge of credit. Boy, I feel sorry for the new kid.)

I thought by this point I'd have stopped being resentful of the women who ruined my good time in fandom, but a little still lingers. Yadda yadda, first-world problems and all that...

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Interestingly, a lot of the reviewers feel that the absence of the Elizabeth and Will Turner characters are part of the problem. There is no moral equivalent, so you have a bunch of pirates being, well, pirate-y. Again, the key question in CoBP was if a pirate could be a good man. Having not seen it, I can't make any snap judgments, but it seems that on a lot of levels the producers have yet again missed the point of what made the first movie so special. And sure, we had undead pirates, and Rush chewing up the scenery, and a couple of cool swordfights, but like all really successful movies, it asked (and answered) some important questions about the protagonist, Jack Sparrow. Certainly movies 2 and 3 didn't even come close. It was all about fights and action. Which is EXACTLY what this movie sounds like. Stupid summer fare.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Yes, if it was just a standalone action movie with new characters, I could probably enjoy it simply for action and dumb gags. But they're using established characters I've come to love a certain way to tell what should probably be a standalone story.

The bluntest (and maybe the most refreshing) review I read was here: http://www.badassdigest.com/2011/05/16/movie-review-pirates-of-the-caribbean-on-stranger-tides-is-shit (and I didn't embed the link because - that's the actual title of the review itself).

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much on par with what I've read, although this guy sums up a lot of comments from reviewers into one really neat, absolutely scathing package.

Um, given that we were among the outcasts who dared to challenge the brilliance of movie two, what in the HELL would make you trust the squee of the fangirls?

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Oh, probably benefit of the doubt. I'm tired of my visceral reaction upon seeing Depp's face, to instead be picturing all those usernames of fans who got me to the point where I sneer when I see the guy's face.

Although, just on Depp himself, I do think he's sold out for easy money at this point. When other actors glom onto a stagnant franchise, I don't usually have an opinion because I figure it's a job, and everybody likes job security - but we're talking about a guy who exhaustedly went out of his way to protest formula on film and the packaging of himself as a product. I wish some interviewer would ask him what the difference is between Fox and Cannell doing it to him 20 years ago, and Disney doing it to him now - other than the fact he personally is profiting more from it now.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Well, my irritation with him has nothing to do with the fangirls that swoon over him. I've swooned over him! It's precisely what you said in paragraph two. How come it was so easy for him to stick to his principles when he didn't have two cents to his name, and now he's a billionaire he's doing this crap? Is he terrified that they'll cast someone else? I can't tell you with what relief I saw Helena Bonham-Carter in the King's Speech actually acting. These Tim Burton fantasies have limitations and it's reached a point where these actors aren't acting anymore. They are his cartoon characters. Johnny needs to step back and do a few no-name indies, working for peanuts, maybe even working for free. It's depressing seeing him squander his gifts this way for THESE people.

A Tale of Two Actors

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I've subtitled this, but it won't be that long a reply.

In some ways, I see Tom Cruise as Johnny's antithesis. In one way, I think they're equally talented. (We are talking only about their careers here, not personal lives - that's my disclaimer.) They're about the same age, Cruise may have started acting a little earlier - and I've always thought maybe the only other white actor who could've played Sparrow as well would have been Cruise (yes, even from the beginning). He IS capable of interpreting characters colorfully - not the same way, of course, but I'd love to know what his Sparrow would've been like.

(Have you seen "Tropic Thunder?" It took me 2/3 of the movie to figure out that was Cruise parodying the Bruckheimer-type producer.)

Here's the antithesis part: If Cruise were doing POTC movie after movie, I wouldn't be surprised. He's never seemed to disdain big franchises or pretend to want to be anything other than universally paid and stared at. His philosophy seems to be opposite of what Depp has said his has always been, but Cruise also occasionally still goes in for smaller films - for fun, for credibility, for business goodwill, I don't know. I guess at this point I'm more impressed with Cruise professionally? Not sure.

Re: A Tale of Two Actors

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I've never understood Tom Cruise's appeal. I saw Jerry McGuire and it didn't move me one bit, and I couldn't understand the hype. I've seen the two Mission Impossibles and sort of got his appeal. There is an intensity about him that is unique. I've heard that he does a fantastic job in The Last Samurai, and I keep meaning to rent it.

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

The tide has turned, eh? ;-)

Last week's EW flatly stated that the Will and Elizabeth story had come to a tidy conclusion with the end of the (first?) trilogy. (So much for "their story has yet to be told" or whatever it was.) And Johnny Depp himself was very critical of the excessive plotiness that made up DMC and AWE. *shrugs*

What he (or EW, I don't remember) had to say concerning Not!Will and his fishy friend makes me think OST is intended to be a 'JACK SPARROW And His Proper Girlfriend' vehicle. No overly complicated (or even at all interesting) side romances will be going on. That could just be Johnny Depp's slant on it. We'll see.

And I do have a free ticket, so I will be seeing it at the theater. At least the once. :-p

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Oh hell, it would be disingenuous for me to pretend I'm anything other than happy they're finally getting their comeuppance and being made to feel like losers for what they like. *G* It's the ones who want to bring Will into it and pretend they're concerned both characters are being bashed. Bitch, please.

It'll be interesting to see! ;-)

[soleilpirate.livejournal.com]

All I have to say is that I got horrified by the Sparrabeth crowd after a) I saw someone's icon that showed parachute!Jack and Lizzie from the second movie, and the caption was something about the whelp getting himself killed. Awful to celebrate any tragedy that befalls a character! And b) when someone wrote an impassioned post in their comm about how the goat in the Locker must represent Lizzie, and also that the real her must be waiting in the cabin to make sweet love to Jack, should be be brave and heroic enough to enter. Gahhhh. Just...no. Do not want.

For the record, I support Jack/Angelica! But I also still support my own one woman 'ship of Jack/Sarah. LOL

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

As I mentioned elsewhere, I gave up on their sanity a few days into the DMC fandom back in the summer of 2006, when they took turns bashing what other people liked and at the same time, accusing anyone who didn't agree with their love of Elizabeth and J/E of misogyny. (Still haven't figured that one out, but okay.)

Yeah, that goat thing ... Hey, at least it was entertaining. *G*