video pilfered from virginia_fell

[veronica_rich]

I don't write slash that advances GLBT rights, any more than traditional romance authors write what they do to preserve the 1950s nuclear family. I severely doubt any actual gay man reading what I produce would consider it representative of his sexual or romantic or life experiences (though, hell, I'd be tickled if it did). But this man IS helping, has helped, and I'd love to see some Prop 8 supportive protester get within arm's reach of this badass:

I think what strikes me about this is how people like Prop 8 supporters fall back on words like "traditional" and "old fashioned" and "longtime." As living humans go, you don't GET much more "longtime" or "old fashioned" than this guy, and he seems to know that just because something has a long tradition of happening doesn't mean it's right (vis-a-vis slavery, female oppression, subjugation of indigenous peoples to name a few). As he rightfully points out, there are some longtime things that are much worth preserving, such as America being a place where people have equal rights. Our founders didn't specify that only heterosexual white males who owned land could be president - despite some of their own moral failings in what they practiced in their own lives, they apparently had the vision to realize things might not always be THAT way.

Comments

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

It's possible you're correct. But there are a couple of things I would point to: First of all, these guys parsed the meaning of much more minor matters and had arguments over terminology. As for equal rights, I don't know how much of a "gay" influence any might have received, but Adams was one of the primary authors of the constitution, and he functioned under no small female influence in his own life, both personally and professionally - in fact, I think Abigail advised him to either factor women into his dealings, or at least not to exclude them (I'm trying to remember my history reading). Also, the fact they didn't specify "white" as a requirement and felt enough discomfort about slavery to come up with the whole "peculiar institution" terminology suggests they figured a day might come when it no longer existed - there were fights even then about whether it should.

Second, I would imagine these guys knew their history. In past cultures, gay relationships not only existed, but were sometimes codified with specific language (if not sanctified). It's true they might not have considered gay marriage would ever be an option, but frankly, as forward-facing as they were about so many other things involving human nature (and deliberately obtuse about giving specifics on laws that have us still arguing today), I can't believe it didn't occur to ANY of them.

[rlane33.livejournal.com]

good points. it probably did occur to at least a few of them that :minorities would one day be in power. as for the gay marriage argument, they probably wouldnt have cared if it happened. They were trying to distance religion from politics - not use religion to make political decisions. And homesexual relations have been happening as long as ... i don't know, but a really freakin long time.

I hope this link works...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu5YZLa09wU

I saw it for the first time yesterday. If the link doesn't work, it's on youtube, Permission to be...