Why not J/W?

[veronica_rich]

Who besides me thinks that AWE should've turned out J/W and taken advantage of all that lovely sexual tension between the boys throughout all three movies? (After all, that's the way the series really SHOULD have turned out. My God, look at the merchandise alone bearing J and W together for the past three and a half years.)

C'mon, ladies (are there any men? don't want to discriminate on my f-list). List in the comments all those moments J/W just *clicked* and made a great argument for them sailing off in to the sunset together. I expect everyone to have fun with this.

Obviously, spoilers within ...

ETA: Sort of random, but I have several old posts I need to reply to comments. I've been terribly lazy, working more than anything the past couple of weeks, but I hope to get to some of those tomorrow. *hands head*

Comments

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I'll start off, since I didn't want to spoiler-cut (too lazy). The biggest one I really enjoy is when Will is stabbed and Jack immediately looks horrified. There's no reaction to anyone else on that ship, except for Will and Davy, in his immediate field of vision. And when he gets back to the Pearl and prepares to stand against the Fleet - Jack wasn't that angry when he shot Barbossa. (And who can miss how happy he was to see Will hale and hearty at the helm of the Dutchman?) I really hate the fact they didn't have a proper parting ... though I guess maybe the fact they didn't have to say goodbye leaves it open for future meetings? *dreamy*

[the-dala.livejournal.com]

Love the looks you described. Yeah, Jack TOTALLY saved Will's life just to prevent Elizabeth's heartbreak...

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I think he ultimately did it for all three of them - for Will, because he didn't want him to die; for Elizabeth, because watching her sob and yell over him was just too pitiful (in a good way); and for himself, because stabbing the heart would be too much like committment (and his compass has spent two movies telling him committing to the Dutchman just isn't what he really wants) and also because I think he didn't want to lose Will from the mortal coil (AND make Elizabeth royally angry - pun intended - with him in the process).

[stabbycutlass.livejournal.com]

For me, it was thier first meeting. Swordfight in the smithy. Thier interactions were electric and thier dialogue was so wonderful. They revealed so much to each other while they fight! That little sword-stroking maneuver was hot too...and it can never be described accurately without sounding slashy either.

DMC was a little bit like that, only bigger and with James in the mix, but not quite the same as in CotBP. As for sexual tension in DMC, I was struck by how no one ever mentioned how Jack was crouching down by Will's rear end to explain it to the Pelegostos. I can't be the only one seeing through that excuse, right? ;)

I had been hoping for a Jack/Will fight in AWE as well, all full of Elizabeth-induced tension that later changed focus onto just them. But I guess it just wasn't meant to be...that, or the "Jack's face to Will's crotch" scene. Everytime I see that Dutchman crewman swing around and catch Jack, all I can think of is "That was supposed to be Will, darn it all."

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Ahh, the sword!sex. (I tend to think of that entire scene as foreplay.) CotBP probably established J/W as the dominant relationship, even over W/E, even if you only regard it as friendship/comraderie. It isn't the relationship that drives everything - but it is the one that ends up resolving things.

Jack IS a little too preoccupied with Will's genitals, isn't he? (And Barbossa's later on - one wonders just how insecure Jack is about his own wedding tackle. *G*)

all I can think of is "That was supposed to be Will, darn it all."

That's sort of how I feel every time Jack breathes on Will to knock him off the ship. "That was supposed to be a kiss dammit."

[poetic-self.livejournal.com]

YES that was supposed to be a kiss, dammit.

[stabbycutlass.livejournal.com]

Absolutely, about J/W in CotBP. Without the J/W relationship, the story niether would have begun (the jail escape) or ended (the noose escape) as we have seen it. And "foreplay" probably is the best one-word description of that scene.

"Jack IS a little too preoccupied with Will's genitals, isn't he?"

Yes. Yes, he is. I don't think there has been one innuendo in Jack's favor, poor guy.

"That was supposed to be a kiss dammit."

Aw, like a kiss to stun Will, and in his shock, push him overboard? That would have been awesome. Dang it, and the beach wrestling was missing too. I hope there's something left in the deleted scenes.

Oh, and addressing "Jack and Will meeting again," I've often pondered on what a cameo in the fouth movie would look like between them. Something short and pure J/W, though I'm not writer enough to envision it completely.

Pucker up Will - it's not that bad...

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

Not my cap. I would have chosen a different angle, but this is the bast available - that I know of. :-p

Re: Pucker up Will - it's not that bad...

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Oy. I suspect Johnny's sheer hawtness is what overrides the inevitible "JESUS CHRIST, BRUSH YOUR TEETH" fainting reaction just about any character would have toward Jack in fanfic (though in canon, it seems only Lizzie can stand the ass-breath ... and I'll not say another word).

[poetic-self.livejournal.com]

The Smithy.

'Who makes all these?'
'I do. - And I practice with them. Three hours a day!'

Still has me grinning. They're good at their special kind of banter.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

To paraphrase it the way the Joker might, rubbing any man's rhubarb - including your own - for three hours a day would get mighty sore after a while. Blacksmith's hands wouldn't be the ONLY things that were rough!

Very different, and yet, simpatico.

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

I love how they are constantly shown to have each others measure. When Jack says "Save me!" and comments (in response to Will's observation "Doesn't look like much") "Neither do you. Don't underestimate it." He proves worthy every time. Will, without being told (as Liz was), knows what Jack does or does not consider freedom, and recognizes his distress ("He thinks we're a hallucination") when no one else seems to. By the time AWE is in full swing, they're actively switching places ("I said to myself, think like Jack"; "Think like the whelp. Think like the whelp.") and doing an excellent job of it.

And there's all that blatantly J/W merchandise. Can't forget that. I really should collect a bunch of it and embarrass myself by posting a pic to show just how much there is...

Re: Very different, and yet, simpatico.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

If you tried to collect all the J/W merchandise, you'd bankrupt yourself for a month. Sure, there's cheap stuff like notebooks and folders and pencils - but then there's also action figure special packs (how come the Sparrabethers can go on forever about the two-pack at Target, but none seem to remember that Hot Topic was selling a J&W package back in 2004?) and coloring books, as well as high-ticket items like the kiddie table-and-chairs set and sheets, pillowcases, blankets, towels, and afghans.

Whereas, if you wanted to buy strictly J&E merchandise, you could easily do that with some disposable income from a week's paycheck. Seriously - there's not much.

Re: Very different, and yet, simpatico.

[the-dala.livejournal.com]

There's not much Elizabeth stuff, period - kind of a bummer. I did see a cute little girl's costume of her attempted-rape-by-Sao Feng outfit at Disney (I was thisclose to buying the too-small headdress because I love that costume), but she's not on the t-shirts and notebooks and pillowcases and all that...

Re: Very different, and yet, simpatico.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

There's probably some big conspiracy behind that, if you ask the right fans. Disney's probably trying to persuade everyone J/E was a minor subplot at best, not the overarching love story of POTC. *BG*

(Now me, I just figure they're pushing the two main male characters because a lot of stuff is aged for kids, and pirate stuff has usually been "for boys" and young boys don't usually want girl dolls and t-shirts. Which I think is a little narrow given modern sensibilities - my boss's 3-year-old totally loved her Jack Sparrow sippy cup I bought her - but whatever, Disney dumbasses. I'm not good at "conspiracy" stuff outside covert government activities, LOL.)

[ainsoph15.livejournal.com]

Yes. Yes to everything you've all said, especially the frustration about how the J/W scenes we had hoped for in AWE were 'tamed'. Some of my favourite slashy bits from each film:

CotBP - In the cave when Jack leans in very close to Will, and tells him not to do anything stupid - I love seeing them square up to each other like that - the tension and physical proximity is *giddy hand gesture*. Also, when Jack gets stabbed by Barbossa, then steps into the moonlight to reveal his skeletonyness, the look on Will's face is priceless - a mixture of admiration and horror. And of course there's the rescue sequence at the end, which I just love passionately. That's the 'mind-meld' that I really like seeing between them. Also, I can't forget the deleted scenes, as some of the best slashy goodness is in them. I particularly love the rather adoring look Will gives Jack when they're walking to the tavern in Tortuga.

DMC - When Jack shows Will the 'draw'ring' of the key, he spends most of that scene looking at Will like he wants to eat him. Perhaps the Pelagostas had some influence on him, after all...
In the threeway swordfight, Jack never actually poses a real threat to Will - he allows James to do that. The most he does is distract Will by walloping him on the arse with the flat of his sword so he can steal the key. That moment where Will looks round in disbelief that he's just been somewhat molested by Jack is all to brief, sadly.
When Jack is aiming the gun at the barrels, he's absolutely focused, and doesn't make a move until he sees that Will is free and clear from the range of the explosion - in fact, I love how the outcome of every battle ends up hinging on how Jack and Will work together.

AWE - Ack, I did a whole J/W meta on this, and there's plenty of slash there, as well as what's already been mentioned (dammit, where was the 'cradled like a damsel' moment! And all the kissing and crotch action! >:(). I love the continuation of the mind-meld between them - 'I said to myself, 'Think like Jack''; 'Think like the whelp'. I also like the barrel-tying scene. There's a moment where Jack sidled up behind Will and very tentatively reaches out and pokes him. Jack always invades Will's space, but it's one of the few times he actually initiates actual contact, and there's something so wonderfully coy about it! Then there's the sandbar, where all the communication between J & W is done entirely through subtext and eye-acting, before another squaring up moment. This is the point at which they really have the measure of each other, and the 'switching' has so much symbolism, and happily also has a slashy interpretation too!
Oh, and of course, there's the fact that in the battle, Will's just got married, and what's the first thing he does after kissing Lizzie? He dashes straight off over the maelstrom to help Jack, that's what.

Heh - Jack and Will aren't very good at saying goodbye to each other, are they?! Come to think of it, they never really say 'hello', either, they just go straight for the action *snerk*. I suppose you don't have to say goodbye to someone, when you know somewhere, somehow, you'll see them again. That is what fic is for :D
*runs off to write more fic*

[golden-helikaon.livejournal.com]

The most he does is distract Will by walloping him on the arse with the flat of his sword so he can steal the key. That moment where Will looks round in disbelief that he's just been somewhat molested by Jack is all to brief, sadly.


How come I've never noticed that? I even watched DMC today. I'm going to have watch that bit carefully next time.

[ainsoph15.livejournal.com]

It's a split-second before Jack snatches the key out of Will's hand. I highly recommend the 'slow advance' function on the DVD player - it has stood me in good stead for all those subtle moments! :D

[golden-helikaon.livejournal.com]

The screencap in your icon... Where did you get it? I've seen that before, but I can't find it amongst all my pictures now.

I'll make sure to watch these movies on slow-mo now :D

[ainsoph15.livejournal.com]

I think I got it over at Depp Impact, in the promo stills for DMC. Slow-mo and pause/angle/zoom are very useful for slash! And ogling pretties...

[golden-helikaon.livejournal.com]

I notice how when Jack and Will are standing together they're always pressed up close, but when you see Jack with other people there's a noticeable space between them. And when Jack is explaining something to Will (in CotBP and AWE mostly) he uses his hands like he actually wants to touch him, but he doesn't.

Yeah, it totally should've been J/W.

Like stabbycutlass said, that bit where they're swinging around I really thought it would be Will who would catch Jack, not one of the Dutchman crew. I was rooting for that breathing on Will to be a kiss too :(

[yoiebear.livejournal.com]

As a W/E shipper, I can't really complain about the dynamics, but I do see your point. In fact, I would rather see the threesome than the W/E and I'm the canon shipper here!

[captsparrow4evr.livejournal.com]

What can I add? Nothing, just ditto, ditto, ditto. What convinced me besides the initial sword-fight was the end action sequence. And one thing that hasn't been mentioned:

When Jack, about to leap off the tower, turns back and says "Will?" his expression is so hopeful. Then when Will makes it apparent that he's staying with Elizabeth (oddly enough, not because he's chosen her but because he's going to take responsibility for his actions), he looks crushed. But he's not about to lose out on the opportune moment, is he? Besides, he can always come back for Will later, right?

Yeah, Jack/Will is _the_ OTP for PotC, no doubt.:)

[ainsoph15.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, the leap off the tower! And (from what I remember) when Jack goes over the edge, Will's the first one to rush forwards to see what happened to him, looking all concerned :D

[starrdust411.livejournal.com]

Man, this conversation makes me want to read/write some J/W. Seriously, everybody has pretty much covered everything!

Although the walking through Tortuga scene is very cute to me. Jack seems like someone showing their new girlfriend their favorite hang out. And even with the whole Scarlet and Giselle slapping him thing, it still seemed like showing off. "Look how studly I am Will! Everybody wants a piece of me!" And Will's few snarky come backs are quite cute as well. "I don't want Jack to know how impressed I am by his machismo and worldly knowledge!"

And of course the line in DMC, where Jack asks Will what's his plan and Will responds that he's going to go over there and kill everyone in his way. The look on Jack's face is cute. It's like "My boy has become a man!"

[mad-martha.livejournal.com]

I think I've said this before somewhere - here possibly! - that I love the fight scene in the forge in CotBP, but especially just before they get started when Will says "You threatened Miss Swann" and Jack says "Only a little" - and he runs his sword teasingly down the length of Will's *grin* I can remember my slash radar going *PING!* very loudly at that moment the first time I saw the movie, and from then on it was Jack/Will for me all the way :-)

But their relationship through all three of the movies is oddly affectionate anyway. Jack treats Will with a kind of mischievous affection and tolerance that he doesn't show to anyone else except, perhaps, Elizabeth (although I think he's noticeably warier of her for a number of reasons). And however annoyed by Jack he becomes, Will is always prepared to talk to him and discuss things and reluctantly put a certain amount of trust in him yet again. I think if it weren't for cursed pirates, sea monsters, Flying Dutchmen, Becketts, more pirates and disenfranchised sea goddesses, the pair of them could probably enjoy a few bottles of rum together in a suitably disreputable tavern. I think Will would enjoy Jack's tall stories and Jack would enjoy having Will for an audience, and who knows what they might get up to once Will's inhibitions were disposed of?!

[elibad.livejournal.com]

Both of them deciding, possibly (likely) against their own best interests, to save each other in CotBP.

Both of their denials of 'friendship' in DMC. How Jack was completely lost, totally adrift, scrambling and bumbling in sheer panic, until Will showed up and Jack suddenly had a plan (Will's damn handy in a tight spot ;P).

Will opening up to Jack in AWE about his fears about Elizabeth, he's confused and uncertain, possibly even afraid, he has no one else. Jack gets it and doesn't immediately blow him off. Jack's big altruistic act, while it may have been for Elizabeth ond/or Will, mostly it was for himself. Jack did not want Will to die.

[golden-helikaon.livejournal.com]

I just had another thought... The very few smiles that Will gives in the movies are directed at Jack (except for the end of AWE, but he and Liz had obviously been doing the naughty, so of course he smiled a little). Particularly when Will finally sees Jack at the Cannibal Island and as Jack leaves at the end of CotBP.

[klear0bsession.livejournal.com]

Oh wow. I don't know what more I can add here...
I think over time I've tried to use many of the looks and bits of interaction mentioned here in some of my music videos.

Thinking back, the scene with Jack telling Will to keep a sharp eye while he goes to talk with Gibbs in CotBP and the eye-acting that both use to communicate at the end when Jack is trying to bargin with Barbossa while Will is about to have his throat slit just melts me.

In DMC, I love how Jack keeps looking at Will's lips while showing him the drawing of the key. The look on Will's face on Cannibal island when he comes to to see Jack sitting on the throne. And the look on Will's face after Jack is swallowed by the Kraken.

In AWE when Jack is first found in the Locker, it feels to me like he can't wait to get down the line of people to talk with Will. I love the fact that later Jack called will a string of names ending in "cod-piece" (from past experience perhaps ;)) And by the time Will escapes from the brig, it is obvious that the two are nearly able to read the others mind. The look on Jack's face when Will is stabbed has already been mentioned.

I too wish they'd had a good-bye of some sort. And I desperately wish that the breathing had been a kiss, and I rather missed the eunuch jokes. The face is crotch thing would have been a great way to wrap those up.