What a fan wants

[veronica_rich]

This is going to smack slightly of reduxing elibad's recent post in one of my communities titled What A Will Wants, but I hadn't looked at it in two weeks (or whenever it was posted) and actually had to go looking for it, for the URL, when I thought of this, just to make sure I wasn't completely copying her post.

This is not a spoiler, for I really know nothing about the outcome of AWE, and I think it's speculation that everyone by now has heard about Will - becoming captain of the Flying Dutchman. (So I'm not putting it behind a cut.) And I tend to believe a fellow fan who is neutral on the whole 'ship issue that this movie will go the way of traditional Disney fare, with the Hero and Heroine ending up together - in this case, Will and Elizabeth.

I want to get those out of the way. Let's just think about Will, alone, for this post. I was reading another community and for the 1,233,234th time it was brought up whether he would end the movie with Elizabeth. And that got me to thinking: How much do I really care if he makes up with her or not? I'm not belitting any fan who really wants this. I'm not even belitting any fan who really wants to see him on the Flying Dutchman ... though frankly, I think that's become more of a "default" position for those of us who like Will, who would rather see that instead of a dead Will Turner (obviously this doesn't include the fans who just don't like Will and want him out of the way - but, I presume nobody would reply to this who doesn't like him at least a little, anyway *G*).

What would you like to see for Will after AWE? It can be more than one thing - a blacksmith and a pirate? A merchant sailor and a father? Please try to think of something other than who he'll end up with. Aside from a relationship with a romantic partner - or instead of it - what can you see WILL doing (preferably happily, or at least with some satisfaction)? I'd like to see him in the American Colonies or somewhere similarly "new" in terms of law and order, a place where he can reinvent himself and make his own little fortune based on his abilities, not his former social strata - perhaps running a metal/farrier/swordsmith shop and employing an escaped black family as paid employees to help him out. (Don't ask me why that last part popped into my head - I've learned with creative writing to just go with whatever shows up. Plus, I like that Will would totally do something like that.) I suppose he could also play some part in local politics/lawmaking, since he's a smart guy and has learned some savvy from Jack that I'd hate to see wasted only on work.

Comments

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Sigh. Because I truly and honestly believe that Will should end up with Elizabeth. Because he's loved her since he was thirteen-years old. One of *the* most charming scenes in any movie is in the first movie where he's so nervous he yanks the sconce off the wall. Why? Because of her.

So I see the two of them together. I do not see them in Port Royal. I think that is too confining for both of them at this point. Will, for realizing that there is an entire world out there where he is not the educated blacksmith who pines for Elizabeth Swann, and for Elizabeth as well. A world without corsets.

I see *both* of them in the New World, appropriately enough. Where opportunity is not *yet* dictated by class and status. It will in a few short years, but at this point in history, it is wide open.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Where opportunity is not *yet* dictated by class and status.

The only problem with this (and yeah, I know, it was my idea) is that the only reason it works for Elizabeth is if she has no home left to go back to - which seems quite likely. If things work out well for the Governor or Port Royale, she'd actually be giving up a better life to go to the Colonies, since I'm pretty sure women had to wear corsets there, too. Abigail Adams aside, gender was still judged there, too. I guess she could break convention, especially if she's married to a merchant and doesn't really have to impress anyone except the occasional customer.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I think the expectations of her as a governor's daughter in Port Royal would be nothing less than a straightjacket. As least in some place like the colonies, she wouldn't have that albatross of expectation around her neck. *Anywhere* gender is going to be an issue for her. But the rough and tumble of some place where the stakes aren't as deeply embedded yet...

[joey112.livejournal.com]

I think that Will might just find out that he's an artist. You know the creativity of the beautiful swords comes from somewhere. So I actually see him settling down, perhaps in the South Pacific and drawing and writing out his exploits.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I like that idea. I think he would probably work with something more ... tangible? Bigger? For lack of a better word. You know, still metals and such, but maybe also the finer-detailed arts.

[erinya.livejournal.com]

...I just had this picture of Will in the middle of a garden of amazing iron-wrought sculpture, of sea creatures and mermaids and witches and dragons and knights on horses (or sea-horses) and other fantastical things, happily working away.

[erinya.livejournal.com]

I want to see Will be his own man, rather than the man he thinks Elizabeth wants him to be. To make a decision because it's what he wants...not what anyone else wants or what he thinks he should want.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

You and me both. I think it's high time Will stopped doing anything for anyone, including commandeering ships to save people who can get themselves out of bad situations. *G*

As a final thought, on "Mind of Mencia" tonight, he's offering to answer any question women have about men. A woman raises her hand and asks, "Why are guys dicks?"

"Why are we dicks?" he answers. "Because you only fuck dicks. You women don't *want* a nice guy." He then goes on to explain that the nice guys, the ones who are faithful and true, are usually thrown over for assholes. (And, he's right, sadly. I've known too many women who want to reform the "bad boy" - I can only guess it's the challenge of it.)

[erinya.livejournal.com]

I guess I want to see him become more piratical and thus more of a bad boy in a way. But in the sense that the movies use the concept, as representative of freedom and individual destiny: to see him gain more of a sense of self and self-determination, rather than the selfless mission thing he keeps doing--the thankless Must Save Everyone gig. Like you say, they can take care of themselves. But who's taking care of Will? Not Will, certainly. And this is something pretty solid in his character, from the very beginning. We see it over and over again. He doesn't try to claim Elizabeth (in fact, even at the end of CotBP, she still is the one to claim him); he doesn't object or seem to mind that Mr. Brown takes credit for his artistry; he offers himself for Elizabeth, for Jack, for his father, for everyone but himself. It doesn't seem to occur to him that it might not have to be that way. And that selflessness is admirable, but it won't serve him well in the world of these movies--any better than it ever serves Jack, as it happens, which is why Jack is the man he is.

And Elizabeth does watch over him, to an extent--or she tries, or thinks she does; she stands up for him in CotBP and works to save his life in both movies. But she's much too piratical herself to make sure that he's not taking care of her in detriment to herself. I don't think it occurs to her that he is not like her. She takes what she can and gives nothing back, and assumes he'll take what he needs and wants, too. But Will gives all he has, and asks for nothing in return. It's a poor balance (not a balance at all, really) and it's the main reason why I have trouble seeing them happy together.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

*"He," of course, being Carlos Mencia. Not Will. (Now THAT would be a cameo appearance ...)

[erinya.livejournal.com]

Hee, I was confused there for a moment (Orlando on Mencia? What) but then I realized what you meant.

[pseudoblu.livejournal.com]

I want Will to be happy. I'm not at all against the idea of him settling in America but I dunno. I'd love him to be an artisan somewhere and Port Royale really does seem unlikely now. I'm very wary about the idea of him being the new Davy Jones, so if when that happens I hope he's able to get out of it somehow, maybe by his father taking it upon himself instead.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I think Bill ought to take the Dutchman, yes. Not only does he really owe it to his son, it would give him the opportunity to be the kind of captain he's witnessed Jones NOT being for 11 years.

[philosophercat.livejournal.com]

When I saw DMC again today (still couldn't find good clear shots of Bootstrap), I felt that there were undercurrents that he would take over: Jones saying he will be on the ship for all eternity, or something, after the dice game, and then how he wouls stand on the deck watching with his head up, rather than down in submission. Just tiny, tiny, tiny, things. Probably nothing at all, but I'd rather see that.

[yoiebear.livejournal.com]

I want to see the character happy, whether that is with or without Elizabeth.
I could see him traveling to find his place and then making a name for himself once there. He still has the skills of blacksmith/swordsmith that could take him pretty much anywhere and, with the right word-of-mouth, could make him a rich man.

As for the Dutchman, I don't see Will being the captain. To be the captain, one must have an inconsolable broken heart and I don't think that is Will. He has lived without Elizabeth before and can again, doesn't mean he wants to, but it is possible, especially since he never thought he would have her in the first place.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Exactly. To be honest, part of what annoys me about the Will-as-Davy theory is that Will would be THAT pathetic, to cut out his heart. (There's another way he could assume command, by stabbing the heart, maybe? But for it to happen Davy's way is just ... not cool in so many ways.)

I'd rather see him alone and eventually happy doing something that he enjoys, you know?

[yoiebear.livejournal.com]

I know! An alone and happy Will is much better and is more in character.

[philosophercat.livejournal.com]

I think his soul is too high for anything settled. Even while he's a blacksmith, he's obviously restless. No one would train themselves so rigorously for combat if they did not wish to encounter it. He is a born leader with 'a touch of destiny,' and that sort of man can't stand at an anvil, or a counter all day. I'd like to see him go to New England as well. That's really the only place I can see him. He needs to lead, and he can do that there- possibly as an American privateer captain (dare I say it? ;) American privateers raided the Nova Scotian town my ancestors built ^_^ ). After the war I can see him settling into a respectable life on land, having proven himself. I can see politics too.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I like your vision. Determined and bold and decisive. (There is a J/W/E series floating around about them living in the Colonies during the Revolution, with Will actively participating in supplies-running and strategizing battles with the Americans. I like the way Will is portrayed in this one.)

[philosophercat.livejournal.com]

Perhaps Weatherby might be able to pull strings to get them both some land, where they could rebuild their lives away from any criminal accusations they would face in Port Royal? It would be interesting to see them trying to temper zealotry on both sides vis a vis the Loyalists and Revolutionaries.

[elibad.livejournal.com]

I have a really hard time pinning Will down, hence my original post about what exactly it is he wants, in which I chased my tail and ended up with 'he wants something more'. I do see Will as pretty adaptable, and I think he can be 'happy' just about anywhere if he has what he wants.

So what would I like to see for Will; figuring out what the hell it is he 'wants' and fighting for it. Be it Elizabeth, a lovely simple life, the sea, Jack, just figure out what it is and go for it. He spends a lot of time in these movies fighting but I never get the sense that it for what he 'wants' so much as something he feels he must do.

Some place like the American Colonies would be great for Will, where he can, as you say, build a life based upon what he can do, rather than to who he was born. But unless something changes drastically, he's still wanted by the crown, and there really isn't anywhere in the Commonwealth that would be safe for him. And my admittedly limited understanding of the skewed time-lines of this mess suggest that the American Colonies are still just that with the American Revolution still some time off.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I don't really think we know for sure what time these movies are set - it's an ongoing fandom debate. So, you could be anywhere from late pilgrims to revolutionaries ...

I want Will to fight for what he wants, too. Even if it's something crack! like Gibbs, dammit.

[galadhir.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I mind, as long as it's a happy ending. My own personal take on it would be that he would build a reputation as a master swordsmith, and occupy that sort of liminal status where you ought to get looked down on as a 'tradesman' and yet everyone can tell there's a genius at work. I like the idea that he stays being somewhere in between, as he was in CotBP (where he was in between Jack and Norrington and no, I didn't mean it like that ;). I could also see him as a merchant or privateer Captain. He's got a natural flair for that too.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I like the idea that he stays being somewhere in between, as he was in CotBP (where he was in between Jack and Norrington and no, I didn't mean it like that ;).

Hmmmm ......

I'm sorry, what?

[captsparrow4evr.livejournal.com]

Chiming in late on this one. What do I want to see for Will? Well, what I truly _want_ is so far removed from what is likely that we might as well call it wishful thinking. What I _want_ is for Will to realize that he is a pirate and a good man--like his father and Jack--and that he truly wants to go with Jack, to sail off for adventure and fortune. I also want him to realize that Jack, bloody pretty bastard that he is, needs him--to provide a steadying influence in his life, to help him get out of those predicaments he gets himself into (and out of by the skin of his--uh, teeth). I would truly love to see more Pirates of the Caribbean movies featuring Jack, Will and the Pearl's crew--whether there is any sort of relationship for Jack and Will other than being friends is immaterial. Truthfully, I could easily see Jack and Will leading a pair of ladies back to the Pearl for an evening of carousing at the beginning of a 4th film.

And that's what I want. Silly woman!;)