Good trip and fictional musings

[veronica_rich]

Three weeks ago, my friend Susan got married, to a college professor she's known for more than a year. Like me, Susan is in her almost-mid-30s and I didn't think she'd ever get married, even though she did date and had lived with a guy before this one. At any rate, she was never searching for a husband, so I think that's the best way to go. (Unlike me - I do not live well with other humans, and I know this from experience. Sex would not abate that.)

Last night I went to her delayed wedding reception, and met a lot of new people (and some old ones, from the wedding and once or twice before, mostly his friends who'd adopted her into their circle). Susan was telling me how I ought to move closer to them (they live 100 miles from me, which is hard to visit because of gas prices) - of course I can't because of decreased job possibilities. But anyway, it was much fun and it's the first time in a long time that I've drank a LOT, didn't get drunk, and woke up this morning without a headache. Maybe I'm aging in reverse! LOL


Okay, fictional musings. In order to proceed to this next part, you have to have an interest in POTC2, you have to not be scared off by some spoilers (believe it or not, I am trying to avoid really major ones, but I've been sucked into looking at some of the still photos and seeing the two trailers now out), and you have to watch the current Japanese trailer first, especially near the end. It can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZhzUAs5W7I&eurl if you haven't seen it.


Near the end is a very brief cut-in scene of what looks like Jack and Elizabeth very close, facing, his hands up, almost like they're about to kiss or something. That's what I'm referring to herein.

I certainly hope this is either one of them leaning in to bluff and make a point, or a quick kiss that will result in the same reaction Marty McFly and Lorraine Baines had to each other in the 1950s part of "Back to the Future" when Lorraine tried to kiss him and felt icky for it.

HOWEVER ... I do not have the faith in the writers that others in this fandom seem to. My opinion is the first movie was saved much on the backs of Johnny and Gore fixing dialogue and plot points (I don't mean the other actors weren't good; what I mean is the writers did a less than stellar job and were saved from themselves. Listen to the writer commentary on the DVD sometime and how often they talk about being asked to change the script here and there, and THEIR ideas of what made the movie so successful). I have a worry - in the fictional sense, of course; I realize this isn't war in Iran or "real world" stuff - that these two are going to try to set up the old, tired, lame-ass "conflict between two men for the love of a woman" angle, using Will, Jack, and Elizabeth.

I know some on my f-list will disagree with my following statement just like some will disagree about my previous statement about Ted and Terry, but I'll say it anyway: Jack and Elizabeth are NOT a feasible pairing. They are too alike. They would work well together to achieve an end, and they could have a fabulous mentor-student partnership. But sexually? Just - NO. There IS tension in that threesome, but it's not between Jack and Will for the attentions of Elizabeth ...

Comments

[metalkatt.livejournal.com]

The writers' commentary sucks like a sucky, sucking vacuum of suckinesss that could suck up a black hole. *stabinates the Terror Twins*

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

"I have no problem with experimenting with the characters - WITHIN CHARACTER."

Looking at your other complaints about Jack being led by the nose, if that turns out to be true, then I agree with you 100%. But since, on my part (and I assume on yours too), the problem stems from a split second scene, I'm just putting the possible problems from my mind. *Ohhhhhmmmmmmnnn*

There could be any number of reasons that she is doing exactly what we're talking about and that it makes perfect sense and is in tune with all of their preexisting character traits - when you take into account the other seven thousand or so other seconds of the plot that we haven't seen or read about.

And because I've noticed that if I go to a movie expecting to be disappointed in some way, my imagination can find a way to fulfill that expectation.

*Ooohhhhhmmmmmnnnnn*

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

That's why I never wanted to READ any spoilers! Foolish me thought I could watch the trailer, see some fight scenes, some of the boys looking FINE, and no other problems. Still, it's simply fiction and I'll be interested in seeing what Johnny can make of this muddle, if it's truly a muddle. (He did well enough last time, LOL)

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm still kicking myself for reading that one. (There's an extra bit I read that your other poster didn't mention. *OOOOHHHHHHHHMMMMMNNNNNN* )

And I shouldn't even be looking at the pics, but I really can't resist the eye candy those two can offer.

The sound effects from that trailer weren't bad either: "Oh bugger." LOL.

And I've been off hounding leggyslove. (iow: I asked. :p) Thanks!

[dressagespirit.livejournal.com]

There is actually, IMO, a very good fanfic out there that is about that. It's called "The Sacking of Port Royal," and I'm thinking it may be posted at the Black Pearl Sails fanfic site. That idea makes for a wonderful story and would make for a great trilogy, especially since we see how Will must struggle with many things and take the Hero's journey. Your idea is much more mythic, which is something that I think existed in the first movie.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I just finished reading that story not too long ago. You're right, it's very well written, and would make a great movie, actually (or part of one). They act in character, yet it's got excitement and adventure.

[jackfan2.livejournal.com]

LOL!! Actually, when the film first one, Curse of the Black Pearl, came out, I thought Jack and Will would prove to be HALF brothers by the 2nd movie.

Hillarious.. *puts on serious face now* You've no idea how releived I am that THAT is not the case.

[jackfan2.livejournal.com]

Because I can't write slash, but enjoy Jack/Will slash exclusively, I've always thought that Het-person would've been Anamaria. I agree that Jack and Elizabeth are just to similarly, and yet Jack and Ana, while they have similarities, there's just enough of a disconnect and respect for years of knowing what the other is/was about that they just.. fit.

Jack and Will, THEY just fit.

Jack and Elizabeth? Like brother and sister, not lovers.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Jack/Ana, I can see.

Elizabeth is like a sister to Will and maybe the schoolyard bully with Jack. But I really think she and James could click if he'd change his attitude a little and be willing to accommodate her wanderlust.

[jackfan2.livejournal.com]

I am glad to hear that. The next two movies will, I think, kill off all Sparrington slash/fans. Not that I mind, mind you. I'm not overly fond of that particular paring AT. ALL.

[bombazzinedoll.livejournal.com]

i really don't think that kiss is going to go much of anywhere.

you said in your original post that the two of them are far too alike for something like a (semi? quasi?) successful relationship to work -- and i think the key to the whole thing is far too alike.

we discovered in the first film that Lizzie was just about ready to do just about anything to get Will back; i think it's in one of fabu's fics that Anamaria says Elizabeth would have lain with a monkey to save Turner, and whereas i'm rather loath to quote fanfiction when it doesn't mean a thing in the scheme of pure canon, i do think that statement is entirely correct.

or (a more canonically sound example) is the 'peas in a pod' deleted scene, where Jack comments on how they're both willing to do whatever is necessary. that's what i think we have to keep in mind.

of course, this does not mean Jack will take his own observations to heart. man's a diehard opportunist, not to mention an arrogant egomaniac and womaniser; if he seriously thought there was something going on between them, viz. the ever-famous 'it never would have worked between us, darling' line, and if he continues to believe that he seriously has a chance to get off with young Turner's lovely fiancee, then not only will he undoubtedly take a stab at doing so (all swishy and self-confident-like), but he's going to give Liz the perfect opportunity to get what she wants, which i sincerely believe has nothing to do with Piratey Nether Regions and everything to do with walking all over Jack Sparrow.

[bombazzinedoll.livejournal.com]

or, he's going to give Liz exactly what she wants while knowing exactly what she wants. maybe he knows that any sort of romantickal relationship between the two of them would end in mutual strangulation, but figures he might as well get some sugar anyway, the slutbag.

[shyaway.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. I don't like Elizabeth or J/E, but what is really wrong with this development is that Jack falls for the same thing twice. It's beyond belief that he would be that naive. Nor can I believe that he would continue to pursue someone who keeps rejecting him - he is much more pragmatic than that, and didn't Depp describe him as lazy? I just don't think he would bother.

[shyaway.livejournal.com]

Can I have this comment gift-wrapped for my birthday? I agree with everything you said (except for wondering about whether I'll see the sequels - I know I'll see DMC no matter what...).

I was concerned to read that Depp was the one who had to point out to T&T that Jack is a Trickster (his comparison was to Bugs Bunny, like the writers mention on the DVD) and that Jack does not change.

The blog entry didn't say who prevailed in that discussion. Here's hoping it was Johnny!

[dressagespirit.livejournal.com]

Gee, thanks. :-) Sure, I'll find some POTC wrapping paper to put around it. I'm guessing they'll have that, along with the thousands of other merchandising ideas they have out. LOL

I'm thinking Depp is the one who prevailed because he seems pretty attached to Jack.

[shyaway.livejournal.com]

And you just know it would have pictures from the first movie...

You're probably right, it seems as though Depp would fight very hard for Jack, and he probably has more clout than the writers.

[honorat.livejournal.com]

I have read ALL the spoilers--including the summary of the entire junior novel. So a great many of the speculations here seem fun because they are so far off. I won't spoil it for anyone else. But don't forget there's a whole Bootstrap Bill angle that isn't showing up in the trailer.

One comment by Johnny Depp that people keep forgetting is the aspect of Pepe LePew in the Jack Sparrow character. Johnny talks about how Pepe always felt he was irresistible to the female characters and never ever clued to their real feelings. I think we have to give the man's own interpretation of his character credit. Jack is not going to pass up making passes at any female that crosses his path, including Elizabeth. He did so in the first movie and he is obviously doing so in the second if you've seen the new trailer. Johnny said he loved how Jack really believed he was about to get lucky on that island. If Johnny is happy with that interpretation of his character, I'm not complaining that he keeps it up in PotC2.

As for Jack and Will's relationship in the second movie, the Entertainment Tonight clip made it clear that things get very tense between them, but over something entirely different than Elizabeth. There's an exchange between Norrington and Will who both have Jack at swordspoint that is highly illuminating. Let me know if you want to hear it.

[honorat.livejournal.com]

I have read ALL the spoilers, including the entire summary of the junior novelization, so a lot of the speculation here seems highly amusing. I won’t spoil it for anyone else. You must remember that there is a whole Bootstrap Bill arc to the story that is not being represented in the trailers.

As for the relationship between Jack and Elizabeth, I think it is important to remember that one of Johnny Depp’s major influences on the Jack Sparrow character was Pepe LePew who always considered himself irresistible to women and remained oblivious to their real sentiments. So of course Jack would chase after any female that enters his orbit, including Elizabeth. He did so in the first movie. Johnny said he loved the fact that Jack really thought he was going to get lucky on that island. I think we have to give Johnny credit for the character he wants Jack to be. Since someone has already mentioned it, that kiss between Jack and Elizabeth has a really strong Judas element to it.

As for the relationship between Jack and Will, it gets very tense and has nothing to do with a love triangle. There’s a clip from Entertainment Tonight that has a very illuminating conversation between Will and Norrington as they face off against Jack. If you want to hear it, I’ll post it.

This is Disney, people. And professional writers avoid fanfic like the plague for copyright reasons. They’re not going to be influenced by it. As for the way in which drama gets written—ever since the dawn of written drama it has always been collaborative between playwrights and actors. Shakespeare and PotC1 are no exceptions. It is no slam on a writer to be influenced by the director and actors. Ted and Terry were pulled into PotC1 at a later date and the script was being composed during the filming, so of course they talked about having to change and add scenes. I understand that normally writers don’t get this chance to monkey with the script during the filming, which is why so many sequels make no sense. But this time they’ll still get that freedom. And I think everyone will be paying close attention to what their cash cow Johnny Depp wants to do.

Grrr. LJ ate my first comment. *Tries again*

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

There's an exchange between Norrington and Will who both have Jack at swordspoint that is highly illuminating. Let me know if you want to hear it.

You could do that, or just post the gist of it herein, if that's easier for you. I trust your summary skills. :-D

Your comment actually came through 3 times, so it looks like you did okay (well, this one is partial, but the other 2 came through intact). I may reply more in full later on, but I think I can cover your other points herein:

You may not have read all the comments all the way through this entire post. It is noted - by me and others - that this is surely not the thrust of the movie. This is the problem a fan runs into, however, when she doesn't want to know the full extent of everything that's happening in the movie (spoilers!) and chooses instead to speculate based on what little she's seen and read bandied about. (And, along with that, reads what OTHER people are saying they've read in spoilers, right or wrong.)

As for fanfic relationships - I also note elsewhere in here that I realize that's not going to happen. I think 99.9 percent of fanfic writers are sane enough to know what they come up with is NOT going to be pulled into canon, especially if it involves a same-sex relationship (even in this day and age it's of limited usage in entertainment, especially by a studio like Disney). Frankly, it's more fun for us fanficcers to hew to the subversive - at least that's why I'm not bothered not to see Jack/Will onscreen.

At any rate, that's not what bothered me about the kiss - what bothered me was the idea that Jack is somehow being written as less intelligent or perceptive than in the first movie. That's part of what I love about the character! I just don't want to see him "dumbed down" in the name of dramatic/sexual tension, you know? And while I understand for her time, sex is one of the few weapons Elizabeth has at her disposal, what I liked about her in the first movie is she didn't play dumb and didn't use her body/looks more than necessary. To even *think* she would try to continually lead Jack around by the dick, and that he would ALLOW it - that's what annoyed me, because it's not in their character, IMO.

[honorat.livejournal.com]

Norrington tells Will, "Please excuse me while I kill the man who ruined my life," and Will's response is basically, "Be my guest." Here's the link: ET Clip (http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/johnnydeppreads/vpost?id=1093296&pid=10192974#post10192974)

I did read all the comments on this post before writing. Fanfic is fun, but you're right that we shouldn't expect to see it on the silver screen.

Jack, as Johnny's comments on Pepe LePew indicate, is not being OOC when he has too high an opinion of his attractiveness to women. And he's always on the lookout for the opportune moment. Jack certainly was outmaneuvered by Elizabeth on the island in the first movie--that was why he arranged to have her locked up at Isla de Muerta. Jack is not perfect. He wouldn't be believable if he were. He has his own agenda at all times, so you can't say he's being led by Elizabeth. Most of the time they don't agree at all, or if they do, it's for different reasons as in PotC1. But he can be distracted by her.

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

I skipped the screencaps. Now that there's a clean version of the trailer available, some folks have already made icons. *points at shiny new icon*

And now that the audio is so much clearer, I'm guessing honorat is right. It looks like Jack is doggin' Liz.

As to why Will would be ready to let Norrington kill Jack - and I've not read any spoilers about this bit - I'm guessing it has something to do with "Bootstrap" (now "Barnacle") Bill Turner. :p

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

It could be it's not a real kiss, just a tease (doesn't negate what bothers me about it, but I'm more sanguine now and figure it'll all work out in the end).

No, NOW I'm imagining what a great kisser Orlando is. **sigh**