body size

[veronica_rich]

I read an entry on someone's LJ where they were comparing people criticizing very thin women as being like criticizing fat women, and saying how one is as bad as the other. So it got me to thinking; I think she makes a very good point. Being fat myself, I don't begrudge or "blame" any woman for being average or very thin. Life is such, and bodies are different. Plus, I don't base my self-image very much on how I look, thankfully (though it would be disingenuous for me to say I never worry about being fat - mostly for health. Right now, I'm too lazy and it's too hot for me to care much).

However, that said - on a wider scale, let's not pretend society treats fat and very thin women equally badly - for one thing, consider that I used "fat" and "very thin," since you don't have to be "very fat" to be broadly condemned for being fat, period. Nobody sees a thin woman and assumes she sits around eating all day and never exercises. Very few people would assume she's lazy or smelly, either, just based on size.

Now, women who feel insecure for being fat - technically, it's their problem. There is nothing requiring them to feel that badly - except, of course, for how society does its damnedest to indoctrinate women, even now, into basing a healthy portion of their self-worth on how men view them. Some boys and men have no compunction about expressing their opinion on how girls and women look, often loudly and publicly (compare this to how likely it is for women to do this to them). I understand that men also objectify thin women, and that it's all sexual ownership entitlement - "hey baby, you look good, take my attention whether you want it or not" or "how dare you not look like the ideal woman and be fatter than I think is sexy!"

I was a fat child; I was teased mercilessly. Like a lot of chubby girls, I had a mother who gave me the whole "sticks and stones" speech when I was nine; fortunately, unlike a lot of girls, I listened to my mother and started ignoring it. Amazingly, it worked - the boys kept at it for a little while, but I shrugged it off or changed the subject when they'd start up, and after a while, they didn't do it anymore. Unfortunately, this doesn't change the real life- and pocketbook-affecting discrimination fat people get in the real world, such as being charged extra by some airlines, charged more for clothing (get real; it doesn't take THAT much more fabric to make a shirt for a fat woman, especially given the prices already being charged for the smaller clothing), or sometimes losing out on jobs that do not require a svelte frame to do the work.

(I never will forget my time staying with a Chinese family overseas for a few weeks. The woman was amazed at the normal amount of food I ate and how much I walked around, and how I still managed to be so fat. She remarked on it at one point - not unkindly - that she didn't know how I was that size with my habits (of course, like anyone else, I do occasionally splurge with friends, but it's not a way of life). Granted, I'm older and slower than I was 10 years ago, but still. The memory amuses me, but it's also telling.)

We're willing to accept that gay, bi, and trans people are born that way, for example; we're even largely willing to afford people respect based on religion, and that's a choice. But we still judge and treat based on body size, when it's not always able to be helped, and as disgusting as it is to discriminate against someone too thin or too fat, let's face facts: Outside individual judgments on women's appearance, we as a culture do not treat very thin females the same way we do the fat ones.

(I'm more than happy to entertain almost any discussion here, but honestly, this is my journal, and I don't need to read comments about "but some of that fat CAN be helped." That is not a helpful remark, nor is it breaking news; almost any of us fat women are very aware just how much of our body size could be helped by exercising harder or starving ourselves - and how much cannot. So don't say it.)

Comments

[day221b.livejournal.com]

Bravo! Eloquent. Being a lady of larger persuasion, I completely agree on all counts.

[missflibble.livejournal.com]

I have more of an issue with people who don't look after their bodies properly and take them for granted - eating nothing but crap etc. I know a girl at work who's a size 0 and she does nothing but either a) not eat at all, b) eat crap and drink full fat Coke etc. It really can't be healthy!

[bonnie-halfelvn.livejournal.com]

The women (and men) whose bodies I admire are not thin, per se; they are atletic and healthy-looking. I admire a well-oiled machine.

I've gotten to the point where I don't concern myself with someone else's size, unless they look unhealthy. And I don't offer unsolicited advice.

(And I am hardly the example to follow, anyway.)

I had a co-worker the other day who sought me out because he had just been diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic (I am type 1) and was scared to death. He is very overweight, which is a risk factor for type 2. I told him he needs to see a specialist, who will likely refer him to a dietitian (I think everyone should see a dietitian to help cut through all the crap advice out there.). I also told him to stay away from the Atkins diet, which is hard on the kidneys. Diabetes is hard on them, too, so we must be careful.

He knows he needs exercise, but he's been too tired to do it. Being tired is a problem for uncontrolled diabetes. I didn't suggest that he join a gym and start doing aerobics, because it's too drastic a change, and he wouldn't stick with it. I suggested he park at the far end of parking lots and walk to and from anyplace he's going. Small steps.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I wrote a huge response, which LJ ate. In brief, I am a tall woman, but I also have the body type that packs on the pounds. I was actually thin when I was cooking because the last thing you want to do after you've been handling food all day is eat. Although I didn't see myself as thin, interestingly, I saw myself as still chubby. However, now I see myself as normal, which I am not, and in the interest of staving off diabetes I am trying to make some lifestyle changes. I don't want to be slender, I don't want to be a diabetic. That's powerful motivation to get my ass off the chair, the ONLY thing that makes me lose weight.

So, my daughter is actually society's ideal. She's my height but takes after my husband's side of the family. She weighs 105 pounds. And she gets shit for it (she's built exactly like Keira Knightly). To add to this, she's totally beautiful with a face that is model worthy. You'd think she'd be in easy street. No. She gets marginalized because of her size. People pick her up all the time. People try to insist that she has an eating disorder (she doesn't not). It DOESN'T matter that she's the ideal.

This brings me to my bigger point, which is that I think this constant harping on how women are supposed to look is essentially telling us, you know, it doesn't matter how you look. It's ALL wrong. The fashion industry is determined to push the ideal of us being adult children to reduce our power in the marketplace. Notice that the more powerful women become in business the tinier we get on the runway?

[hippediva.livejournal.com]

They keep changing the parameters, too. Back when I was a teenager ---I turned 15 in 1969----no one thought of size 12 as 'fat' or 'plus'. It was simply size 12. 'Fat clothes' started at about size 18-20.

Now, everyone got onto the thin bandwagon, thanks to the freakin' insurance companies who are always lookling for a reason to deny coverage. Size 12 has become plus sized. And the average American female is a size 14 according to the last reports.

Size 6 used to be the norm for all models---that was the size of the samples. Now, it's size 0? WTF? Methinks these fuckers are screwing with everyone! LOL!

[hippediva.livejournal.com]

I should have added this: I was anything but fat as a kid---I was a total tomboy and spent my childhood at top speed. But I was tall----I reached 5'6" at age 9 and grew to my adult height of 5'7" by the next year. That was where I ended up being teased. It took until 9th grade for one of my friends to reach 5'9". The boys didn't catch up for another 18 months. LOL! Such is adolescence. What angers me is that clothing mfr. and the so-called 'experts' never take that into consideration. They're oh-so-fast to suggest 'obese kids should be taken away and put in foster care' (which is as stupid, childish and ridiculous a notion as can be found.) Meanwhile, they're busy cutting all school programs except varsity football......I'd say there's a whole lot of ugly coming from a whole bunch of idiots on a regular basis re: this subject.

[captsparrow4evr.livejournal.com]

The truth about the fashion industry and the diet industry is that they distract women from the real issues they need to deal with. Just like the neo-cons throw out the "abortion" or "gay rights" flags to distract the sheeple, the fashion and diet industries (both overwhelmingly run by men) are in place in order to keep women "in their places." Fat is a feminist issue; so is thin now. Being at either extreme is unhealthy but more unhealthy is being obsessed with changing your genetically predisposed shape in order to fit the whims of a fickle industry. Self-acceptance, though, doesn't sell diet books or the latest fashions. Self-acceptance and maintaining a reasonable lifestyle is, therefore, the enemy.

[keechakatt.livejournal.com]

I was the kid who couldn't gain weight. I was a size 3 all throughout high school. I was teased, and called Olive Oyl.

Now in my fourties, and being a size 14. I'm not too bothered by it. I don't like where the fat has gone, it really shouldn't be there. But I really don't give a darn what people think. I've always thought if someone had the guts to make comments, they better be prepared for the return volley.

[virginia-fell.livejournal.com]

However, that said - on a wider scale, let's not pretend society treats fat and very thin women equally badly - for one thing, consider that I used "fat" and "very thin," since you don't have to be "very fat" to be broadly condemned for being fat, period.

This, definitely. Our culture does not give the same crap equally, even if they are both inappropriate body policing. One of these forms of body policing is not just saying, "how you look is my concern and you should be very interested in my opinion" (which both fat and skinny women get, because women get it) it's also saying, "you are bad and you should feel bad" (which is pretty much reserved for fat people).

It's like how calling straight people "breeders" is not as bad as calling gay men "faggots." They're both rude, and share a reason for why they are unacceptable, but they are not even near the same league of badness. It's just damned difficult to effectively insult someone for too closely adhering to what is culturally approved, because if they reply in kind they'll have a lot more power behind the swing. Not equal at all.