who gets to decide what others can write?

[veronica_rich]

If you're a woman or girl in fandom and you're eloquent enough to write reams of meta criticizing other female fans for writing m/m or male characters, and not enough female characters, I really have a hard time taking your criticisms seriously. Because if you spent half as much time and energy writing and creating the female characters you claim you want to read about, as you do complaining your fellow fans are not serving you by writing what YOU feel you have the right to read, there wouldn't be a problem. You'd have gone a long way toward solving it.

I write m/m. I have written f/m. I have written gen, humor and otherwise. I have not written f/f because I have not encountered a f/f pairing I want to write. It doesn't float my boat. It may never float my boat. You don't like what I write, don't read it. I have plenty of f-listers who don't like slash; they don't read those stories of mine. We still manage to get along. You don't see me complaining that the good J/N or W/E or even the two good J/E writers who exist in my fandom aren't writing the J/W that I want to read. If I want J/W that fits my specifications, I'll write it myself.

And I have. Many times.

I write m/m. I'm neither gay nor male. I don't pretend to be; I don't pretend what I do is groundbreaking or a blow for gay rights, though I do support gay equality. But my support thereof is separate from my fanfic; my fanfic is NOT political, even if I were to drop a political theme or statement into one. I would never pretend it is. I do not believe I am appropriating a culture to fetishize it, because (1) I make an effort to write from my characters' brains, not their genitals, even if it's just porn; and, despite my effort to do a good job, (2) I cannot imagine that anyone would take my POTC slash fanfic seriously as literature. I do not publish in literary venues; it's LiveJournal fan communities, for godsake. My stories show up alongside 14-year-olds' discussions of "OMG JOHNNY DEPP IS SO HOTT!!111" I mean, really. I won't publish my original writing HERE.

But, what if I DO want to write m/m original fiction? Do I not have that right, especially if what I produce is a fair attempted portrayal of human beings? Tyler Perry isn't an older woman, despite playing one in several movies. Anne Rice was never a 300-year-old French male vampire; Naomi Novik never captained a ship as a man during the Napoleonic war; and neither Ted Elliot nor Terry Rossio were ever a 20-year-old woman in the 18th century Caribbean. (Remember how Elizabeth Swann was seen as a feminist ideal in fandom? That was two men writing her, with input from various other men producing and directing. Was there even an XX in the bunch other than Keira Knightley? I'm pretty sure she didn't singlehandedly create that character. My criticisms of T&T never included the assertion that they didn't have the right to write that character.)

My point - and to paraphrase Ellen, I do have one - is that fandom exists for people to share what they enjoy with other people who also enjoy the same things. This doesn't mean you should shut up and never criticize anything. But think about who you're criticizing. If you see egregious offenses in the movie or book (i.e., Cannibal Island characterizations of the natives in POTC-DMC set some people's nails on a blackboard) and you want to discuss them in an adult fashion with other fans, there's a place to do that. Or, write a letter to the studio/publisher/literary magazine pointing out the problem. Those writers were paid a great deal of money, and you have a right to question their intent. But if you just wish you could read more free fanfic of your favorite character ... write her yourself or encourage those writers who do, to do more. Complaining about the free fanfic from writers who don't want to write her isn't going to garner you stories that you want to read. Fanfic is a labor of love, a fantasy that will never come true - it's not coursework for college-level Creative Writing 241, even if some people do use it to practice their writing skills.

But, eh, as always - what do I know of such esoteric topics? I'm just a middle-aged fanfic writer with a four-year education from a medium-level Midwest university. I don't have any advanced degrees or academic papers under my belt, or published novels. I never experimented with other women or multiple partners, never inhaled, shot up, or snorted, and I wear plain cotton underpants. LOL ...

ETA (from one of my replies below): I would point out in the POTC fandom that I may well be the only writer (other than someone who once kindly wrote a story inspired by one of mine) who has made a fat woman the star/protagonist of any of any fanfic - Prissy, from CotBP. I just wanted to throw that out there. I'm a fat woman myself - do I have the right to scream that I'm being marginalized by all the women in this fandom who only want to write skinny, beautiful Elizabeth Swann??

Comments

[hippediva.livejournal.com]

And I love you just the way you are.....

You are a Goddess.

*licks big gold star and affixes it firmly to your forehead*

(you also get your wings, the double-ended lightsabre and extra credit in Fanfic Heaven. And the toaster oven, of course. Choice of 4 enamel finishes. *G*)

[mneiai.livejournal.com]

Very eloquent!

I have started liking certain female characters because of a fic or two I've read where they're very well done--I think one of the responsibilities of people who are fans of characters that are largely disliked in the fandom is to attempt to get their readers to see the reasons behind those things they dislike, certainly something I've tried in some of my fics and something people have even commented on to me. If these people can write all these metas, then can't they write fanfic that does the same thing? That makes people see why the female characters are likable?

I write m/m. I have written f/m. I have written gen, humor and otherwise. I have not written f/f because I have not encountered a f/f pairing I want to write.

I've written everything, but I rarely write f/f. Is it required that I should? If straight females aren't supposed to write m/m because there's no females involved, then, as a lesbian, shouldn't I be limited to writing f/f, as I have no personal sexual experience involving males? Nevermind that to me a lesbian couple is more than just shoving two women on screen together in a fic just because, or that writing f/f sex is the most boring thing I've ever done, since it can't be described well in words.

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

I think I've been reading a few of these metas of which you speak. But there are so many of them - and I think some of them might not be as related as they think they are.

From what I gather, some folks use m/m as a reference to slash fiction, and some folks consider m/m to mean solely original gay male fiction. The argument against women writing m/m fiction originated with the 'm/m as original gay male fiction' meta. That began at a Gay Fiction Writer's Award ceremony: a female writer of original gay male fiction won an award; she then made comments that were not well received by some of the male writers of original gay male fiction (I have no idea what those comments were); one of those male writers made some misogynist comments in return (I have no idea what those comments were); the meta 'do straight female writers have more or less privilege than gay male writers' begins; and then manages to get mangled up with the ever present 'why aren't there more great female characters' meta. In my mind, anyway. So there may be some Fandom and Original Fiction arguments that are 'crossing streams' in a totally confusing - and regrettably escalating - way. (Or I'm just confused. Probably the more likely option. :-p )

I'm in total agreement with the 'put your pixels where your want is' idea. The sheer volume of Strong Female Characters would be awesome. The more congenial atmosphere would likely improve the number and quality of slash fics, as well. And the folks who were always going to write lousy fic would continue to do so. (Bitching will never make that go away. That's how almost all some people learn.)

I'm also in total agreement with the 'I don't fetishize gay men' idea. I fetishize those characters because of those interactions (often involving intended subtext). It's not as generalized (for most of us) as some folks are trying to make it.

[xzombiexkittenx.livejournal.com]

Plain cotton undies = SO COMFY.

I think what's amusing is that when I write fanfic I write almost entirely male characters. In 90% of my original stuff that I've written in the last year the MCs and friends have been women. What does this mean? It means I like tv and films with male characters because, quite frankly, most of them are written better than the women because there are more men in the TV industry than women and women are not well represented in media. Which is why my original stuff has women. If I want them, I have to write them. Same with fanfic. Then when I become a world famous author/showrunner I can be like I'm in ur base, writin' awesome wimminz. (I have a rich fantasy life)

As it turns out, I don't care if my fanfic has more women because the shows didn't and I can read original fiction for my awesome women fix (thus, also, paying for it and supporting more women in fiction and film) That's not to say that I don't love the character pieces I've seen done on background female characters, some of which has blown my mind and changed my opinions of characters from meh to THIS IS WHAT SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE ON THE SHOW!, but that's neither here nor there.

I guess what my point is, is that today I looked at films playing in the theatre near me and only one had a female lead, and it was a romantic comedy. This, I feel, is a bigger problem than the slashy pirates, or batman or wincest I write for no money in my spare time.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I think that it has gotten to the point where the thought police are knocking on our keyboards. And yes, you make an excellent point. So much of the brouhaha is about women writing men. And, as usual, it's women who end up sabatoging other women. Because frankly, I think a much more important issue is that the majority of screen writers are men and they are writing craptastic roles for women. And if they don't write craptastic roles for women, then the directors see fit to give what could be a stellar role to someone who is beautiful but can't act. And I am not talking about KK. I am talking about comparing the screen chemistry and pure acting chops of Robert Downey Jr and Rachel McAdams (who I actually like in other things) versus Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law. And yet Irene Adler is a STUNNING character in the Holmes books. Yet Hollywood can't help but declaw her. So yeah, who am I going to write about? Unless you're writing real fiction, you're stuck.

And yes, I do write real ficton and you wouldn't believe the shit I get because my protagonist is a full-fleshed out FEMALE character. The people who dislike my books do so because my protagonist is a bitch. So, what's a writer to do? At least if I write male characters, I don't have to justify them getting angry or getting irritated or screaming or swearing or, you know, generally acting like normal people, not cardboard cutouts that are familiar and safe.

[alex-beecroft.livejournal.com]

It's increasingly becoming clear to me that I'm not going to be able to please all of the people all of the time, no matter what I do. Therefore the only solution is to write what I want to write, in the way I want to write it, and if other people don't like it, they can write their own.

[bellumed.livejournal.com]

The whole "gay men vs. straight women" thing A) completely ignores the reality of the situation and B) is head-spinning, with tenable arguments on both sides (men have a long and honored history of suppressing any hint of females controlling their own sexuality; slash fiction can be pretty goddamn thoughtlessly appropriative or even homophobic-- hello seme/uke and "I'm not gay, I'm [his name]-sexual!)

I think I fall on the "write more female characters, dammit!" side of things, though. There's a lot of self-sabotage of women, particularly by younger writers. We've all read the fics where the female protagonist is turned into a raging bitchzilla for sake of slashy true love. I can't speak for the posts you've read, but to me it's a matter of better writing and not erasing your own gender (again, we've all read the fics where everyone is gay and there are no women around to do the annoying things they do, like breaking up the slash).

I'm almost exclusively a slasher, I really don't care whether there's more het and femmeslash is written, since I'm not gonna read it anyway. I just want to see Uhura kicking ass and taking names and not wearing goddamn go-go boots and a miniskirt in the military in my Kirk/Spock epics. But yeah, I think I have the right to ask for better portrayals of women in fanfiction, just like I have the right to ask for any other aspect of good writing.

[joyful-molly.livejournal.com]

While I can see valid points on all sides involved in this and any other discussion, for me, there's basically good writing and there's crap writing. I'll stick to reading the first and hope I'm not guilty of the latter.

And the more I read meta, the more I come to suspect that some of those discussions are not about fighting oppression in fandom, but about fighting oppression itself becoming a fandom, BNFs and dogpiling included.

Whether this is an intentional development or not (or just me seeing things), I can't tell, but I'll keep as far away from it as possible.

[lolitalockhart.livejournal.com]

I am a skinny-ish woman though not model skinny, I'm 5"7 and a size "small", I don't know American sizes, and I think pudgy people are great, my Mini Gov OC's are, if that counts?

And pudgier women have actual boobs, while I'm almost 22 with a sad a-cup! ;-;