I'm a lousy human being

[veronica_rich]

And I am most certainly going to the Bad Part of the afterlife, because all I can think reading this is Thanks a lot, lady, for being drunk and throwing things at the adults and compromising your case. That really helps those of us who are peaceful and polite and would stop at only dangling the three-year-old upside down by an ankle over the aisle until he turned red. (I'll take my whacks on the head now.)

By Jolie McCullough, The Arizona Republic

Phoenix police are investigating an incident on a Southwest Airlines flight where a woman allegedly grabbed a child who was kicking the back of her seat in March.
James Holmes of the Phoenix Police Department said a mother is pressing charges against a 42-year-old woman who allegedly assaulted her 3-year-old boy while they were on Southwest flight 582 heading to Las Vegas at the gate of Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport on Mar. 21 at about 7 p.m.
No arrests have been made because police are still gathering names of witnesses from Southwest Airlines, but the mother described the incident to police:
Her three-year-old son either kicked or put his feet up on the back of the woman's seat when she turned around and grabbed him. The woman told the child, "You're not going to be kicking my seat all the way to Las Vegas," while she shook him and then slammed him back on the seat, the mother told police.
She and other passengers began to argue with the woman after the incident, and both parties were taken off the plane to discuss the situation.
Staff had assured her that the woman would not be allowed back on the flight, and she returned to her seats with her children, Holmes said. The woman, however, did board the same plane again, and chose to sit in the same seat over other empty seats.
During the flight, the woman harassed the family and threw garbage at them. The mother told police that the woman appeared to be intoxicated.

I dislike a bratty child, and I dislike even more the bad parents who sit aside slack-jawed and let it happen (we would've had our asses spanked for that behavior). But I really, really hate people who go too far in trying to rectify the situation, who make it worse on those of us who have legitimate complaints about the little jer- I mean, darlings. ;-)

Comments

[starrdust411.livejournal.com]

My mom was watching the news a few weeks ago when a similar story came up. I believe it was a local case where a woman was in an elevator with her two young children and a man (a stranger). Her young daughter started crying obnxiously and the man decided to grab the girl by her mouth and scream at her, or something like that.

I agree that kids who act up should be dealt with, but only by their parents! Otherwise, it just gets way out of control. Although I have to wonder what's with the sudden fighting back against bratty kids? Is there some sort of revolution going on? Lol

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I think people are getting sick of parents who let Junior or Brattina run around unchecked, touching and doing whatever they want, while they stand back with a big grin, a "what can you do?" attitude, and more interest in their own navels than in controlling their own Mini-Me.

And this isn't sudden, not really. WAY back in the day (like, when I was a little kid), if you went out with your parents or grandparents and you got a little away from them and acted up (in our small town everyone knew everyone else), there WOULD be an adult there to tell you to straighten up and threaten to report you to your parents.

[yoiebear.livejournal.com]

I can understand the woman's frustration, but she shouldn't have taken it out on the child. Take it out on the lazy-ass mother.
I'd have looked at the mother and kindly asked her to talk to her child about not kicking my seat. If that didn't work, I'd go to the flight attendant. If that doesn't work, then go to the airline when you get home. It doesn't help, but spouting off a few rude lines to the airline has always made me feel at little better.

And, I had my ass beat more than a few times for being a brat and (when/if?) my kids will get the same treatment. I'm sick and fucking tired of the sense of entitlement that people think they and their children have in this world. It's the demise of a structured civilization, I believe.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

There are degrees of being a brat, and there are people who are far too sensitive to what I consider reasonable childish behavior - screaming is a definite no-no (unless the plane is going down missing a wing), but some babbling or laughing or a little crying wouldn't be unusual on a plane. Seat-kicking is a no-no, simply because that kind of behavior isn't acceptable anywhere - you're infringing on another person's seat, when you have your own you can sit in perfectly unmolested. It's like reaching over and sticking your finger in someone else's drink.

[malakhai.livejournal.com]

For fuck's sake, it's a 45 minute flight. I despise kids but even I think that was a bit much.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I don't think the length of time is the issue - I wouldn't put up with anyone kicking my seat for 45 minutes. I think it's in how the adults handled the situation (probably the drunk woman's fault first) and it escalated out of control. It should be OK in our society to turn around and say "Excuse me, but could you please have your kid stop kicking my seat? I have a headache and it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks" and be taken at face value instead of it being interpreted as "OMG YOU LOUSY MOO THROW THAT THING OUT THE WINDOW!" (Not that the woman even tried this, AFAIK; she sounds more reactionary than is strictly healthy.)

[captsparrow4evr.livejournal.com]

I hate bratty kids but this woman was totally out of line in the way she handled it. Me? I would have asked the flight attendant if there was another seat I could have. I used to work in a library and now work in a pet supply store. The number of parents who stood idly by or were too busy with their own issues to control their children is horrifying. I do have a quick little story showing that it's possible to work with a brat. Tonight a human puppy was in the store (4-5 years old and unsupervised, of course) and he found a bird net that he proceeded to start whacking the parakeet habitat with. I walked up and took hold of the net as I said to him "Please don't do that. You'll scare them." He didn't have a choice about stopping because I took the net away. He went into the aviary for the bigger birds and I followed him. He wasn't sure he liked that but asked me a few questions about the bigger birds, which I answered. When he left the aviary, I followed him over to where the adoption kittens are. He decided by that time that he needed to find his mom because this polite but crazy lady wasn't going to leave him alone. I never once stopped smiling at him.:)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I wonder if we're getting the whole story, if the woman perhaps did ask the mother to control her child first. Some parents don't take kindly to that no matter how politely you ask - they see it as a slur on themselves or an insult, rather than correcting something every kid probably does at some point. And yeah, I've had to deal with a lot of kids in my life, and had to come up with ways to distract/deter them from doing things they shouldn't. My biggest challenge was learning to deal with a former boss's small daughter, who had all kinds of behavioral problems because she wasn't disciplined very well at home. When she was with me, I made it clear there were consequences if she acted up, as well as rewards if she obeyed. Yes, I spanked her 2-3 times. It was really all she needed to understand how I rolled. I knew her when she was four years old; by the time I left that job, she was 10 and a well-behaved young lady who did what I asked and I could have reasonably adult conversations with while taking her places or having lunch with her. (I still send the kid a present on her birthdays; she just turned 13.)

[benkenobigal.livejournal.com]

I have seen the extremes of both sides -- where parents ignore the little hellion who's running and screaming and grabbing and being...well, a monster. I've also seen people over-react and snap at parents to "control their kids!!"...when the kids aren't being bad.

There were other empty seats. She should have taken one. But considering that she was drunk, she might not have had the greatest judgment going there...

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

No, it sounds like her judgment was shit, and perhaps she didn't take appropriate steps to fix the situation before resorting to idiocy. Although as I say below, one empty seat is not like another. Clearly the child should be controlled to behave better - we're not talking about a little babbling or mild crying out of fear of flying. Kicking the seat is a deliberate action that does not have to occur, and frankly, the kid better learn early this isn't going to be liked by anybody, anywhere, EVER.

[benkenobigal.livejournal.com]

I'm actually surprised that the airline let someone who is drunk on the flight. They're really cracking down on that.

But you're right. The mother should have been paying attention. If I kicked the back of a seat, my mother would have been all over me like white on rice!

[a-silver-rose.livejournal.com]

Heaven help the woman if the child had some sort of condition where "controlling" him would pose a challenge (like, say, autism or ADHD).

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

The woman clearly acted out of line (why were you THAT drunk, idiot?) proportional to the situation. But I wonder if we have the whole story, if she did try to say something to the child's parent before dealing with the child directly, or even if she at first asked the child to stop in a reasonable adult manner. If it didn't stop, I wouldn't stay there and fight, I'd ask to be moved if possible. (Although, keep in mind one empty seat is not like another - if I don't have anyone next to me and the only other option is to have to cram in next to some big guy and be squished, why should I have to do that so Junior can keep happily kicking my nicer seat? I guarantee I paid more for my seat than he did for his.)

[roguedemon.livejournal.com]

I'll be going there with you. Heck, if it was up to me, children wouldn't be allowed to be in the same place (plane, restaurants, theaters) as grownups until they were older than five and had proven that they could sit quietly.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

LOL. I'd be happy with a little more thought being put into where the kids are taken and if there's a choice. If I go to an animated movie at any hour, I expect there to be children (no matter how inappropriate the subject matter - seriously, parents, read a review and see if it's actually a KIDS' movie. Just because it's hand-drawn with bright colors doesn't mean it is). When I went to see "Constantine" at the 8 p.m. show, I really didn't expect the two dumbasses who sat down 2 rows ahead of us with their 1- and 4-year-olds. (Thank heavens the older kid kept talking and got them kicked out 20 minutes into the movie - that's no place for a kid that young, for Chrissake. That movie gave ME questionable dreams.)

One more: If you're a single parent or you're the only one home and you discover you really NEED something from Walmart at 11 p.m., and you have to drag your kid out of bed to go, and you're in and out as quickly as you can be, that's life. I'm not crazy about your sobbing child missing her sleep, but I can deal. If you're a couple standing in line at 11:30 p.m. with half the store in your cart and refuse to try to quiet that screaming 3-year-old you're hanging onto? If it were legal, I would slap you stupid. There's no reason BOTH parents have to be in the store or even out and about at that hour. That kid needs her sleep worse than that.

(I don't bother parents, so I get to hear this very rarely, but when I do, it always makes me chuckle: that I don't have children, so I know nothing. I guarantee I have more experience with taking care of children, especially small ones, than a lot of people with teenagers.)

[roguedemon.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, it's the dreaded, "Until you have kids you just can't understand (anything)!" argument.

What I hate is when people with kids act like your problems aren't worthy of consideration, because you don't have kids. I've gotten that from people I worked with. That always made me want to deck them.

And Constantine?! That's so inappropriate, it's almost funny. I wonder what kinds of things those children are exposed to at home.