veronica_rich: (Default)
veronica_rich ([personal profile] veronica_rich) wrote2008-11-07 09:07 am

Innnnnnteresting ....

Supposedly, according to McCain campaign staffers, Sarah Palin didn't know Africa was a continent, not a country, and she was guilty of other asorted dumbnesses. Let's break this down:

In defense of the woman - and I cannot believe the text is coming from my fingertips - I know more than one smart person who has made this initial mistake. Including me. Not in the lasting, insistent sense - "Uh huh! Yes it is! South Africa's part of one country!" - but in the initial, unthinking sense when the topic first comes up. Because I've known since I was in at least the fourth grade that there are various and assorted countries in Africa. All I'm saying is, if you've ever heard anyone toss off "the country of Africa" before thinking, or someone reminding them "it's not a country, dummy" and then they go "what'd I say? oh shit, I wasn't thinking" - yeah. So, is this what the staffers are exaggerating? Or is it a case of her insisting it IS a country even after someone says "um ... it's not one country?"

Because I have to say - George Bush went to Yale and Harvard, and frankly, I think he's about as dumb as an actual president can get. (Not knowing the philosophical differences between Sunnis and Shi'ites before going to war is WAY worse than a slip of the tongue on Africa, IMO.) And while his lack of intelligence has been lampooned, spread out over eight years, the fact is that it took a lot longer than three months for people to start pointing and laughing at it. So why with Palin?

Is it - again, I have to wonder at this coming from ME - because she's a woman? Because it very well could be. (Bit of a lesson to the casual fandom pheminists out there: THIS is the sort of shit feminism was REALLY invented to combat. Not your crocodile tears over a fictional character not getting the right man.) Make no mistake about Palin - I don't want her anywhere NEAR my White House, now or in the future - but there are plenty of things to legitimately criticize about her besides lack of geographical knowledge IF it's just being exaggerated as I reference above. (And I suspect this may well be the case. I don't think the woman's the sharpest tack in the corkboard, but I really question if she's THAT ignorant.)

And if she is that ignorant? Well, it's not the fact she's being criticized for it, because certainly basic geographical knowledge is important. It's HOW she's being criticized. (See previous paragraph.) Certainly the electorate has the right to know, just as they should be cautious when listening to her tell a third-grader about the duties of a vice president and getting it out of whack. All I'm saying is, let's watch how we do it, and maintain a healthy skepticism about the extremity of her reported "ignorance." (If she were truly that dumb, wouldn't we be hearing about something far more egregious than the Africa thing? That's what makes me suspicious.)

[identity profile] pir8fancier.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 04:42 pm (UTC)(link)
I think the Republican party is completely splintered on this issue. The real hard-core types who support someone like Palin (the neocons who see another potential puppet) believe that they weren't conservative ENOUGH (insert eyes hitting screen). They don't seem to realize that all those young people who voted in this election have grown up in a multicultural US and that the values of the old GOP have no resonance outside the South. I actually see an enormous catfight erupting. Because the neocons wants to back someone like her and those in the GOP with some brains are going to have to craft a policy that doesn't marginalize them to being the party of the south--and ONLY the south. It will be an interesting battle to see what shakes out. Because, regardless, the GOP needs to do some serious soul-searching. Beyond the Obama win, their bedrock philosophy has resulted in an economic disaster of unbelievable proportions (and from I've read this is only the beginning) and a stalemate in the Middle East. I wonder how in the hell Karl Rove wakes up in the morning and looks at himself in the mirror.
ext_15529: made by jazsekuhsjunk (_starletdreams - casablanca)

[identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 04:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Lord, I don't know ::shudders::

It will certainly be interesting to watch. My hope (and I should really try to watch more Faux News to confirm this, painful though it may be) is that neocons are so inherently self-serving that they'll conform to a kinder, gentler, more genuinely traditional (if that makes sense?) Republican party. Or they can get thrown out, I'm cool with that too. But really, I'd like to stop using 'conservative' as a pejorative just as much as I'd like to stop seeing 'liberal' used the same way.

[identity profile] justawench.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 05:01 pm (UTC)(link)
From what I've seen, the neocons have religious righteousness on their side and they'll be pulled from the Republican party kicking and screaming.

[identity profile] veronica-rich.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 05:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Or they'll take it over and force the moderates to create their own party instead. I worry this is what will happen and nobody will get the memo out to the voting Republicans fast enough so they understand they're NOT voting any longer "the way Dad did."

[identity profile] veronica-rich.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 05:53 pm (UTC)(link)
"Conservative" hasn't become near the pejorative that "liberal" has, for the sheer reason it hasn't been used as long nor in the same fashion. "Liberal" has been a dirty word for at least decades - what's more, it's equated with anti-American traits, whereas "conservative" is not. "Conservative," at worst, means "religious wacko nutjob."

The problem with allowing the radical religious element to take over the Republican party is that they've opened the lamp and I have a hard time seeing the genie go back inside. Because I know even moderately religious people who are secretly happy to see what is preached to them being pushed on Capitol Hill and in state legislatures.
ext_15529: made by jazsekuhsjunk (fried_flamingo - elizabeth and weatherby)

[identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 06:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, I know they're not on the same scale at all. But I genuinely believe a society developed to the point that ours is cannot permanently regress. A few decades, sure - but eventually we're going to catch up to the continuuum (Scandinavian countries have set a pretty good bar, I think). That's why I find certain aspects of this election so encouraging - not Prop 8 and its sister discrimination, obviously, but the upholding of reproductive rights, the embrace of Obama by a majority of white as well as minority voters, the negative reaction of moderates to Palin/McCain who jumped the conservative ship. I believe we will swing back to center on social issues, in part because we must adopt more moderate fiscal policies.

Or maybe that's just what I tell myself so I can sleep at night.

[identity profile] justawench.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 04:59 pm (UTC)(link)
No, they believe McCain wasn't conservative enough. The Republicans have been made even more neocon (from what I've heard) by losing some moderates who held seats in northern and western areas. If they don't reverse this trend, I don't know what will happen. Maybe some of the actual fiscal conservatives will splinter off and make a new party?

ETA: Oh, sorry, I see you said "they" not "she."
Edited 2008-11-07 16:59 (UTC)
ext_15529: made by jazsekuhsjunk (crymeariver - barbossa)

[identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 06:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, but for the first time in eight years, they lost.* This is what I wanted most from this election: that the religious right would fail to show up, or that they would show up and get soundly beaten. Their power as a voting block is splintering. Congressional neocons are going to have to sink or swim, and everyday fundie-leaning Americans are gonna have to stop thinking of themselves as a majority.

*except for Prop 8. I think the reasoning that it passed because African American voters who tend toward social conservatism turned out in huge numbers is sound (note: I'm not trying to blame any group for the outcome; another important factor was an insufficient campaign against Prop 8, or at least that's my impression). Gay rights advocates are going to have to pick up a lot of ground reaching out to minority groups, and that's been thrown into sharp relief by this election.

[identity profile] justawench.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 06:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I desperately wanted the Republicans not only to lose, but to be thrown down and kicked so they know they are not what the people want and they're forced to reevaluate. If they actually represented fiscal conservatism and small gov't (as in, staying out of people's bedrooms and such), I might consider voting Republican. They need a major change right now and I hope they get it because I think we need an opposition party.

[identity profile] veronica-rich.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 05:59 pm (UTC)(link)
I wonder how in the hell Karl Rove wakes up in the morning and looks at himself in the mirror.

Karl was paid to do a job. It wasn't his responsibility to make sure the tone of Bush's campaigns and presidency stayed lofty - that was Bush's job. Just as this campaign, it was McCain's job to make sure things didn't get out of control. If you choose the wrong people for a job, you're the one who shouldn't be able to sleep at night.

Take this from someone who once had a job she quit because she couldn't look in the mirror after a while.

[identity profile] pir8fancier.livejournal.com 2008-11-11 05:48 am (UTC)(link)
Well, I don't think you or I actually believe that George Bush was anything but a puppet. Cheney and Rove have been running the country. Rove (not Cheney) believe in lofty. They believe in doing whatever it takes. Torture, suspending habeous corpus, wire-tapping. I imagine it's too much to hope that this might be a wake-up call. It took a brain tumor for Lee Atwater to realize that he'd been acting like a total asshole on steroids.

McCain really did let things go berserk, and given his gracious speech when he conceded the election, I'm wondering if he had his own bout of soul-searching.

[identity profile] pir8fancier.livejournal.com 2008-11-11 05:49 am (UTC)(link)
sorry that's (NOR Cheney)